this post was submitted on 06 Mar 2025
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[–] Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 35 points 5 days ago (2 children)

So he bought a house for 6k 50 years go and now has to pay 2k in property taxes each year. If he was renting that wouldn't cover two months.

Does he also complain that the sales tax on candy bar is more than he used to pay for a candy bar when he first bought his house?

[–] candybrie@lemmy.world 26 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

The real problem if that's the scenario is that his social security check is less than $400/month.

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[–] deegeese@sopuli.xyz 95 points 6 days ago (9 children)

I don’t understand inflation, so as an old landowner I think I shouldn’t have to pay taxes.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 87 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Property taxes do hit retired people differently though. Taxing based on what the government says your land is worth instead of your income is absolutely meant to create opportunities for real estate agents and developers at the expense of the people living there.

[–] deegeese@sopuli.xyz 26 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Taxes based on assets tax those with assets, instead of income taxes which tax those who work.

If old man owns such a valuable piece of land, he deserves to pay his fair share for the public services he used.

It’s like saying you don’t want to pay for schools because you’re not a student.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 41 points 6 days ago (6 children)

The fact that schools are funded by the surrounding area is crap and needs to change. He's retired with a social security income. He paid into the system his entire life already. Telling him he must sell and move out because he's not wealthy enough is exactly what we should be working against. It's a system by the wealthy, for the wealthy.

[–] bizarroland@fedia.io 15 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Of course you are looking at outliers and I feel like you're right to the point that outliers like that should have special assessments or breaks.

Where I live, the taxes are pretty high for real estate, but if you are a senior citizen, you can get a discount where your tax rate is locked in at the value that it was when you retired.

I also have some acquaintances who inherited a house and at the time houses were very cheap but they didn't pay the taxes and they were super upset that they were going to lose their house because they didn't pay the taxes.

So now they're bunking up and living in apartments and Scattered because they didn't want to drum up the two or three thousand dollars a year in real estate taxes that they had to pay to keep an entire house.

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[–] RunawayFixer@lemmy.world 39 points 5 days ago (8 children)

And this is why in most civilized countries, progressive income taxes make up the majority of the government budget. Basing taxes on non income/investment related metrics screws over the poor + lower middle class. It's a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich.

[–] dreugeworst@lemmy.ml 18 points 5 days ago (1 children)

you could have progressive taxes on wealth as well. there's a difference between having one house worth 500k and having 500 million in shares

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[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 10 points 5 days ago (1 children)

UK has property taxes too and its pretty shit tbh. Council tax, there are bands based on what your house was worth in the 90s (yes really...) and generally the poor will pay a higher % of their income. I have a pretty small bungalow, 60m². One of the lowest bands and pay £1600 a year on a house that cost £230k. The most you can have to pay is £4200, beyond that point regardless of how much more expensive your house is the tax rate doesn't increase.

The original plan of the tax was a fixed rate per person. This among other things is why many people were keen on the idea of digging a hole so deep that we could hand Thatcher over to Satan personally.

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[–] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 21 points 5 days ago (3 children)

While I do think there should be some relief for some people as far as property taxes are concerned... living in a town or city gives a person access to many local government subsided services. Firefighters, and ambulances are some simple ones that everyone uses. Roads as well. And the cost of that does increase over time. Basing a person's contributions to paying for that based on the value of thier property is just easier for local governments, and more stable. But it doesn't really corelate with the use of those services. Nor with income or ability to pay.
Life necessities really shouldn't be taxed at most levels. Food, shelter, water, heat, medical care. Most already aren't. But housing still is. Investment properties should be taxed of course, but an average primary residence really shouldn't be.

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[–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 24 points 5 days ago (4 children)

Comparing property taxes now in 2025 dollars to unadjusted original cost in 1950 dollars is nonsensical. The two numbers bear no relation nor should they.

The average social security check is $1,978 a month or $23,736 per annum. Half of that is $11,868. Lets suppose he lives in CA where the annual rate for owner occupied is 0.74%. His house would be worth approx 1.6 million dollars. To to be clear he is whining about paying the appropriate and legal tax on his fully owned 1.6M cash hoard. This is a great problem to have.

If its that burdensome he can cash out and even with rent payments for the rest of his life live great even if he has no other savings of any sort.

Looks like about $5800 a month gradually increasing with inflation for at least 25 years.

If he has another $400,000 which seems super likely since I don't think he's actually living in his 1.6M house on $12,000 a year it could be more than 7500 a month.

If we add a little realism and only include another 15 years he could probably actually withdraw about 11,000 a month.

https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/social-security/average-monthly-social-security-check https://www.tax-rates.org/taxtables/property-tax-by-state

[–] shortrounddev@lemmy.world 23 points 5 days ago (3 children)

I think it's the moral issue of having to cash out your own property to afford to live in something you built and already own

[–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 9 points 5 days ago (6 children)

Property tax funds important things like schools, emergenct services, etc.

if he was destitute otherwise would already have sold it. You are arguing in favor of a tax break for some rich prick probably worth north of 3 million not paying the taxes that pay for your kid to get a decent education because basically feels.

Its no more immoral than you giving up your income.

[–] faythofdragons@slrpnk.net 7 points 5 days ago (2 children)

There is no way you can convince me that gentrification is actually good for kids. Property tax funding education does nothing but punish poor families.

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[–] KulunkelBoom@lemm.ee 17 points 5 days ago (9 children)

They dangle the carrot of "home ownership" as if anyone ever owns a home that can be taken away for not paying taxes.

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[–] kersplomp@programming.dev 17 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Property tax is the big thing that forces people to engage with capitalism against their will.

Without property tax, you could live off-grid for eternity. But with property tax, you always have to earn money, and the people that control that money therefore control you.

[–] xor@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 5 days ago (1 children)

without property tax, all land would be owned by corporations whether or not they planned on using it ever….
but an individual living on a property shouldn’t have to pay property tax on their home.
the guy in the picture could have 100 acre of unused land he’s holding on to, too….

another fun one is some cities will seize your property for being $1 off on your property tax payments.

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[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 57 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

For many states property taxes are the majority of funding for public schools. If that's the case for the pictured person, the sign could also read:

"I got my public education for free from age 5-18 funded from others paying property taxes including learning how to read and write to make this sign you're reading. Now that I've received that free public education and benefited from it, I'm not interested in paying for any kids to be educated using my dollars. F you, I got mine."

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 51 points 6 days ago (16 children)

We could also just pay for education differently.

[–] Damionsipher@lemmy.world 32 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Yes and. How most of the US funds their school system is super fucked up. Here in Canada, primary education is paid for by the province, and school funding is based on student enrollment numbers. This translates to much more equal levels of education, regardless of how wealthy a given neighborhood may be. I was shocked to find out that schools are paid for by catchment area taxes in must of the states - it makes the history of redlining so obvious when the is literally a "wing side of the tracks".

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[–] Hiatus@lemmy.world 11 points 4 days ago (1 children)

This isn't a discussion on property tax, it's more about social security. There is no reason we cannot scale taxes/fines to income. Many countries pull this off...

[–] Crikeste@lemm.ee 6 points 4 days ago

bUt tHeN nO oNe wOuLd bE iNcEnTiViSeD tO wOrK oR bEcOmE wEaLtHy

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 9 points 4 days ago (1 children)

My dad literally went to the city and argued against them raising the book value of his home, which would cause him to have to pay more in property tax.

He won too.

That loon.

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[–] sfu@lemm.ee 12 points 5 days ago (6 children)

I would be more okay with property tax, IF once you reached a certain age (or disabled), you were not required to pay property tax.

[–] deltamental@lemmy.world 26 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Yes, we can cover the resulting tax shortfall by increasing the tax on single mothers, first-generation low-income homebuyers, and renters.

Look at the result of California's tax policy (which was designed with aims similar to yours): an entire generation of young people will never be able to afford a home in the place they grew up in, while millionaire retirees get a huge tax break while making thousands renting out spare rooms in their massive houses on AirBnB.

These kinds of special tax carve outs sound nice in theory, because it seems like you are just "not taking money from old and disabled people", but that tax burden falls on everyone else, as does the massive distortion of the market. You are in fact taking more money from other people, who may be hurting even more.

And don't tell me, "We'll fund it by a tax on the rich". If that's your proposal, get that tax on the rich passed, and dole out the proceeds to elderly at risk of homelessness. Have it officially be budgeted, so that we can decide if keeping an elderly person in their $2.1m 5 bedroom home is worth cuts elsewhere. As of now, such policies are mostly robbing middle class young people blind.

[–] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 8 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Solution build excess housing at a loss, intentionally until real estate prices go down.

[–] noxypaws@pawb.social 6 points 4 days ago (5 children)

I like that idea, but it'd have to come with some mechanism to prevent parasites from buying a bunch of them up and renting them out.

fuck if I know what such a mechanism would look like though..

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[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 36 points 6 days ago

Surely this man would be in favor of a greater and graduated state income tax then, right?

...right?

[–] sommerset@thelemmy.club 15 points 5 days ago

Remember - america is not a country, it's a business.
If you can't make it - noone gonna do shit

[–] ramble81@lemm.ee 28 points 6 days ago (7 children)

Interesting. In Texas once you hit 65 they freeze your property taxes and no longer increase it. My parents are only paying $1,800/year on a $250K house. Meanwhile I’m paying $14,000/yr on a $500K house.

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[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 13 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

There are a lot of people suffering right now to the extent that his plight seems so frivolous.

I'll bet hes a republican voting for deficit which results in raised taxes on people like himself and cuts for people far richer than him.

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[–] militaryintelligence@lemmy.world 18 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

Property taxes go towards education. More right-wing bullshit attacking schools.

[–] TheBeege@lemmy.world 23 points 5 days ago (1 children)

But this is a bad idea.

Areas with high property value have higher quality schooling. Area with low property value have lower quality schooling. The rich stay rich. The poor stay poor.

Maybe education money shouldn't come from property taxes. Maybe corporations should pay for the education they require their workers to have visa corporate taxes

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[–] LordCrom@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago (3 children)

So property tax I am ok with, in theory. The people with property in a city should pay for services like fire, schools, police, road maintenance..... What gets me is when the city wants more and more for stupid shit like iPads for all students.... Every 3 years due to forced upgrades or just old style deprecation over 3 years.

The amount my taxes go up each year is more than any raise I get. Then add on insurance which has gone insane. I paid off my house to avoid a 20k female flood insurance bill because a 1 foot piece of concrete touched a high risk flood zone. A technicality because if I took down a screen patio, then I wouldn't have to pay.

It's insane how expensive owning a house has become

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[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 21 points 6 days ago

Is this guy paid by some rich guys wanting to abolish property taxes?

[–] FeelzGoodMan420@eviltoast.org 8 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

To be fair this dude could have gotten his house 45 years ago for 50K. So adjusting for inflation and overall development of his area, it could make sense. Comparing current payments to cost of money 40 years ago is comparing apples to oranges.

Now all that being said....there is a serious issue with cost and availability of housing, and I am not dismissing that. I'm just saying context is needed for this ragebait post.

[–] RBWells@lemmy.world 18 points 6 days ago (5 children)

Here the increases are capped at 3% per year if you live in the house. I lived in a shitty house we bought for 35k in the 1990s crash, and property taxes when we sold it in the breakup 20 years later were still under 1k a year, though insurance was crazy high. With husband we had to buy a much more expensive house, there are no shitty ones for sale anymore, all are snatched by corps to flip and rent. So now it's high but in 20 years maybe it will seem low again. Especially if the market crashes and it's re-assessed more reasonably.

It's just inflation, I do think someone owning a home costs the city in roads, trash, transit, other services, Is not crazy to tax on property ownership.

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[–] HeyJoe@lemmy.world 20 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I see both arguments for this as valid. I get that you wanna stay and live your entire life in the place you owned forever. The reality is taxes are needed and will increase forever, which are important to keeping your state functioning (as long as the people in charge are doing a good job and actually using the funds wisely). I wonder what state they are from because I know property tax can be wildly different depending upon that. I'm sure they don't want to, but there are like 6 states that currently offer no property tax to seniors over 65 and 10 that offer exemptions based on income and age. At the same time it is good to see them complain because maybe they can try to sway the state to also offer the no property tax benefit to seniors as well. Still if he is hurting that much, then it's probably easier to sell the place and move to another place that will allow him to be better off with less worrying. It's a valid option even if he doesn't agree with it.

[–] cheers_queers@lemm.ee 18 points 6 days ago (1 children)

his point is that his income should have increased to reflect inflation, since his taxes did. it's actually obscene that half his check goes to property tax on land he's had forever, and people are talking down about him for it.

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[–] bunnyjenkins@lemmy.world 13 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Here in the United States, this issue and this sign are advocating for what? This man is where? At his county commissioner meeting? This sign implies we want the federal government in our local tax policy? I mean really? GTFO with this garbage. Stay the F out of my busniess, if I don't like property tax, that comes with my local vote, and has nothing to do with the federal government. I could bet someone paid this tool to stand with this sign because someone who doesn't understand decentralized local government power wants to make a point about something that has nothing to do with social security.

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[–] qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website 8 points 5 days ago (4 children)

California disagrees: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13

Property tax is assessed when there's a sale, and otherwise changes very slowly. It's a controversial measure.

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