this post was submitted on 01 Dec 2024
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[–] hactar42@lemmy.world 150 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)
[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 19 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Thanks. I have so many questions about some of these. Cut of the stone, king's evil, Planet, rising of the lights, teeth... I'm mostly curious what king's evil is in this context. Gonna go look Edit: per the link it's scrofula.

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[–] Nougat@fedia.io 111 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)
[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 94 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

“People called cancer the wolf, because it 'ate up' the person.” But this wasn't just a linguistic quirk. The idea was actually translated into practice. “Some doctors would even apply raw meat to a cancerous ulcer, so that the wolf could feast on that for a while instead of 'eating' the patient.

Source

[–] SuperIce@lemmy.world 52 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I could see how people 400 years ago could think that makes sense.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 56 points 3 weeks ago

"There are two wolves inside of you. I'm afraid it's terminal."

[–] 9point6@lemmy.world 23 points 3 weeks ago

Classic comedy duo, well until cancer went through the divorce...

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[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 73 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

Made away themselves.

Ah British dancing around the point terms.

[–] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 31 points 3 weeks ago

We’d still say “done away with themself”.

[–] ChicoSuave@lemmy.world 25 points 3 weeks ago

"Unalive" is the current dance. Euphemism isn't new.

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 22 points 3 weeks ago

Just trying to avoid the YouTube censors

[–] flamingo_pinyata@sopuli.xyz 60 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

Kill'd by several accidents

When the universe is out to get you, but you survive the first accident

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 15 points 3 weeks ago

Rasputin syndrome

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[–] Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de 51 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

"My teeth are killing me" meant something pretty different back then.

[–] Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 59 points 3 weeks ago

"Teeth" actually meant "a child who's still teething." As with "chrisomes and infants," so many little ones died that often they were categorized by age rather than a specific cause. Probably the only reason to specify "overlaid, and starved at nurse" would be to blame and punish the wet-nurse.

[–] sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 43 points 3 weeks ago

So aggravating to not be able to sort by columns

[–] webghost0101@sopuli.xyz 42 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] HoneyMustardGas@lemmy.world 72 points 3 weeks ago

Scary:

"Dying of planet" was a term used in the 17th and 18th centuries to describe a sudden and severe illness or paralysis that was attributed to astrology and the influence of malevolent planets. People who died from "planet" exhibited symptoms similar to strokes, heart attacks, and aneurysms. At the time, people who picked up bodies for burial often knew little about the cause of death. Other causes of death listed in The Diseases, and Casualties this year being 1632 included "affrighted" and "made away themselves". -Via Overview.

[–] happybadger@hexbear.net 41 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Someone translated the antiquated diagnoses: https://www.reddit.com/r/london/comments/r0g9fs/causes_of_death_in_london_in_1632/

spoilerBear in mind that there was neither modern medicine, diagnostics or autopsies in the 1600s, so diseases we would treat separately would be lumped together.

Abortive and stillborn – mostly natural miscarriages and stillbirths, but there was always someone who knew how to induce a miscarriage with either herbs or physical interventions.

Affrighted – it’s not really possible to die of fright, but if you died for no reason, or had a stroke or heart attack which left your face twisted in an expression of fear or pain…

Ague – the alternating fevers and chills associated with malaria

Apoplex and megrom – strokes and other catastrophic brain damage, such as burst aneurysms (megrom is migraine, migraines don’t kill you but it’s a sudden, excruciating pain in the head, some of which are a symptom of something fatal).

Bit with a mad dog – rabies, or, just a dog bite in a bad place such as by an artery or one that got infected.

Bleeding – any number of causes, just like today.

Bloody flux, scowring and flux – various ways of shitting yourself inside out.

Bruised, issues, sores and ulcers – self-explanatory. Sores and ulcers that got infected would almost certainly kill you. Severe bruises could be indicative of some sort of haemorrhagic fever.

Burnt and scalded – homes were heated by and food was cooked on open fires. Only five deaths from burns and scalds in a year is a miracle.

Burst and rupture – could be appendix, but unlikely as that would almost certainly require autopsy to diagnose. More likely hernia.

Cancer, and wolf – discussed in other comments but the same thing, essentially. Wolf was particularly aggressive tumours that ate someone alive from the inside.

Canker – ulceration of mouth and lips from herpes. Secondary infection was what probably finished you off, but a mouth full of sores will make it difficult to eat.

Childbed – women would make their will shortly before they were due to give birth, because it could go so wrong in so many, many ways.

Chrisomes and infants – Chrisomes were babies who died within the first month of life, around the time they were baptised, the chrisome is the cloth used during the baptism.

Cold and cough – wrap up warm or you’ll catch your death.

Colick, stone and strangury – all sorts of pains in your intestines, hernias, colic, bowel obstructions, appendicitis, difficulty urinating.

Consumption – probably tuberculosis, but possibly other lung diseases such as lung cancer etc.

Convulsions – epilepsy or other fits, possibly febrile convulsions in infants.

Cut of the stone – death during or after surgical removal of kidney or bladder stones. This is the 17th century. No anaesthesia, no aseptic surgery, imagine how desperate you would have to be from pain to let some butcher in his bloody apron anywhere near you.

Dead in the street and starved – homeless and froze to death.

Dropsie and swelling – symptom of heart disease and early stage failure.

Drowned – fairly self- explanatory. Could be accidental or deliberate.

Executed and prest to death – executed is obvious. Pressing was a form of torture used if a prisoner refused to enter a plea of guilty or not guilty, they would have heavier and heavier weights placed on their chests until they either gave in and entered a plea or died under the weight.

Falling sickness – epilepsy

Fever – could be anything involving a high temperature

Fistula – almost certainly obstetric fistula. Women who labour long and hard can incur all sorts of physical injury, a fistula is caused when the pressure of a baby that can’t get through causes necrosis as the blood supply to the genitals is cut off. In extreme cases, the bowel, vagina and bladder become one big hole through which urine and faeces pass uncontrollably. Fistula has other causes, if you want to horrify yourself you can read the wikipedia page.

Flocks and smallpox – flocks is a euphemism for syphilis, smallpox is smallpox, hurrah for vaccines, we don’t have this one any more.

French pox – syphilis

Gangrene – infected wounds

Gout – err, gout.

Grief – how many times has one of a couple died and the other one followed them shortly after?

Jaundice – liver disease.

Jawsaln – lockjaw, also known as tetanus. Get your shots, especially if you fertilise your garden using horse manure.

Impostume – abscesses in various places. These can cause septicaemia

Kil’d by several accidents – this just means “several people died by various accidents” it doesn’t mean some poor unfortunate soul fell off the roof and was hit by a cart and then fell in the Thames.

King’s evil – scrofula, a tuberculosis infection of the bones and glands in the neck. It was believed the king or queen could cure it by touching the affected place.

Lethargie – presumably some sort of chronic fatigue

Livergrown – swollen liver, could be caused by various diseases.

Lunatique – insanity of one sort or another.

Made away themselves – suicide

Measles – measles

Murthered – there’s been a murder! It’s of course almost certain that some of the other deaths were murders, especially those of babies, the accidents, and drownings.

Overlaid and starved at nurse - Overlaid is either what we these days would call smothering, usually caused by an adult sleeping in the same bed as the baby and either rolling on top of them in their sleep or trapping the baby under the blankets, or Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. Or, of course, deliberately stopping a child breathing.

Starved at nurse could be what used to be called "failure to thrive" or issues with the mother or wet-nurse's milk supply. In the case of wet nurses, they would often take on too many babies and couldn't produce enough milk for all of them.

Palsie – paralysis or uncontrolled tremor of muscles. Some cases were probably Parkinson’s.

Piles – these can cause septicaemia

Plague – febrile disease carried by the fleas that normally live on rats or other rodents.

Planet - afflicted by the astrological influence of a planet. People believed that the planets had a significant influence on people’s moods, behaviour and health. Could be applied to any sudden death such as a heart attack or aneurysm.

Pleurisie and spleen – pleurisy is a chest infection, I’m not sure why spleen is grouped here, I’ve had pleurisy and I definitely knew my spleen wasn’t involved.

Purples and spotted fever – typhus or any other disease which causes subcutaneous haemorrhage. Severe bruising. Broken blood vessels caused by underlying disease.

Quinsie – a complication of tonsillitis, an abscess in the back of the throat.

Rising of the lights – the coughing and choking as your lungs fill up with fluid as your organs fail. Sometimes asthma, croup, pneumonia, anything characterised by a feeling of choking.

Sciatica – sciatica. This can be crippling if not treated.

Scurvey and itch – scurvy can cause death. It stops wounds healing and it also reopens old wounds and death results from either bleeding or infection.

Suddenly – heart attacks, strokes or aneurysms.

Surfeit – an excess of something. Either eating too much of something which is toxic in excess (Henry I and his lampreys), or untreated diabetes, or drinking too much.

Swine pox – swine pox isn’t transmissible to humans, this is a euphemism for syphilis.

Teeth – either babies who died as their teeth were coming in, or deaths from abscesses.

Thrush and sore mouth – sores make it hard to eat. Could be a bad case of mouth ulcers, herpes, a number of things.

Tympany – a swollen abdomen that sounds hollow when tapped. Fatal if caused by kidney disease.

Tissick – the wheezing and coughing associated with asthma or TB

Vomiting – long-term vomiting can prove fatal.

Worms – a thoroughgoing worm infestation can fuck you up good and proper. If it’s really bad, you can hear them, rustling inside you. Rustle rustle rustle.

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[–] AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee 39 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)
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[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 37 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

::: spoiler beware!

tf is King's Evil?

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[–] NutWrench@lemmy.world 37 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

"Killed by several accidents."

lol.

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[–] MyTurtleSwimsUpsideDown@fedia.io 35 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)
  1. I would choose wolves over cancer
  2. I suspect it means ear infections, but I choose to believe there was a big kettledrum accident that year
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[–] Zwiebel@feddit.org 35 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)
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[–] masterofn001@lemmy.ca 32 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

Over-laid sounds like a good way to go.

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[–] Mbourgon@lemmy.world 31 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

Chrisomes : died while under a month old.

[–] Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 21 points 3 weeks ago

Not sure, but I'm guessing part of the reason to specify the difference between "infants" and "Chrisomes" (baptized babies) might be to say where they'd be buried/where their souls would go.

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[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 30 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (4 children)

Only 7 murders? The population of London was apparently about 400,000 back then so that's less than half the murder rate of present-day New York City (which is considered a relatively safe city). I don't think that can be right...

1632 London: 7 / 400,000 = 17.5 murders per million people

2023 New York: 312 / 8,258,000 = 37.8 murders per million people

[–] Plagiatus@lemmy.world 72 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

a relatively safe city [...] 37.8 murders per million

Ignoring that in 1632 it might've been easier for murder to go undetected, here are the numbers of present day London. It's about 13.1 mpm, even lower than in 1632, about a third of present day New York.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/862984/murders-in-london/

America is not really a shining example when it comes to those things...

[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 18 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (6 children)

New York's murder rate (and the overall murder rate in the USA) is shaped by a history of race relations which is quite different from London's. A white person in New York is much less likely (and conversely a black or Hispanic person is much more likely) to be murdered than the overall murder rate for the city might lead someone to think.

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[–] qprimed@lemmy.ml 30 points 3 weeks ago

oh, cool - RFKs suggested DSM just dropped!

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 29 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

You guys are all laughing about 'planet,' but I'll have you know my uncle died of a cerebral hemorrhage when Neptune hit him on the back of the head. And we all thought it was just a glancing blow, but two days later, he dropped dead right in the middle of the supermarket.

You won't laugh so hard when it happens to someone you care about.

[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 17 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

Imagine being proudly offed by Pluto and then they make it not a planet any more.

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[–] 2ugly2live@lemmy.world 29 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

Spelling "Lunatic" as "Lunatique" now. Shout out to the poor folks that just died in the street and starved. Surprised it's only 6.

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[–] The_Che_Banana@beehaw.org 24 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Rising of the lights?

...found it

Rising of the lights was an illness or obstructive condition of the larynx, trachea or lungs, possibly croup. It was a common entry on bills of mortality in the 17th century.[1][2] Lights in this case referred to the lungs.[3]

[–] Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee 24 points 3 weeks ago (9 children)

I saw this list on hidden killers of the Tudor home (even though this list is post-Tudor era). The specifically spoke about the 'teeth' part.

Basically what that mean was that a variety of tooth decay and oral issues pertaining to the teeth. This was an era that first saw a large consumption of sugar (which as you know LOVES to fuck with teeth) by wealthier people and coupled with a nonexistent oral hygiene practice and dentistry. Basically people's teeth would decay and cause gum disease or simply a shitload of pain that even the painful teeth pulling couldn't fully fix.

One thing that you must remember is that prior to widespread sugar availability most people's teeth were remarkably fine throughout life as people's diets didn't contain enough crap that will mess your teeth up. Of course this isn't to say that it was perfect. Braces would have been a good thing to have for many people and a simple toothbrush with half decent toothpaste would have been a very welcomed thing.

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[–] qx128@lemmy.world 23 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)
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[–] lemmur@szmer.info 22 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (4 children)

Planet

wtf were they smoking in London?

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[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 20 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

That one guy that died of Sciatica 😣

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[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 20 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I never thought to combine deaths by cancer and by wolves to save space or because they’re similar enough. I can’t comprehend why they thought it was a good idea either.

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 26 points 3 weeks ago

It wasn't cancer cancer, it was a big crab that lived in the Thames that hung out with a wolf.

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[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 18 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (8 children)
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[–] Famko@lemmy.world 15 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

King's Evil sounds like they were executed to me, but I have no clue what it could actually mean.

[–] Semjaza@lemmynsfw.com 16 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Scrofula.

Anyone checking for a actual executions should look about 3/4 down the first column.

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