Some of the "hate" might be overblown (and played up). But he's still a poorly written character. He's boring and one dimensional. There's conflict right there, his dad died under Picard's command, and Picard now wants to boink his mom. But he's just normal teenage asshole + nerd trying to get into Starfleet Academy. He swoops in to solve a problem like a deus ex machina device one moment, then is a stupid angsty teen the next.
this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2024
68 points (91.5% liked)
TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name
3898 readers
1317 users here now
/c/TenFoward: Your home-away-from-home for all things Star Trek!
Re-route power to the shields, emit a tachyon pulse through the deflector, and post all the nonsense you want. Within reason of course.
~ 1. No bigotry. This is a Star Trek community. Remember that diversity and coexistence are Star Trek values. Any post/comments that are racist, anti-LGBT, or generally "othering" of a group will result in removal/ban.
~ 2. Keep it civil. Disagreements will happen both on lore and preferences. That's okay! Just don't let it make you forget that the person you are talking to is also a person.
~ 3. Use spoiler tags. This applies to any episodes that have dropped within 3 months prior of your posting. After that it's free game.
~ 4. Keep it Trek related. This one is kind of a gimme but keep as on topic as possible.
~ 5. Keep posts to a limit. We all love Star Trek stuff but 3-4 posts in an hour is plenty enough.
~ 6. Try to not repost. Mistakes happen, we get it! But try to not repost anything from within the past 1-2 months.
~ 7. No General AI Art. Posts of simple AI art do not 'inspire jamaharon'
~ 8. No Political Upheaval. Political commentary is allowed, but please keep discussions civil. Read here for our community's expectations.
Fun will now commence.
Sister Communities:
Want your community to be added to the sidebar? Just ask one of our mods!
Honorary Badbitch:
@jawa21@startrek.website for realizing that the line used to be "want to be added to the sidebar?" and capitalized on it. Congratulations and welcome to the sidebar. Stamets is both ashamed and proud.
Creator Resources:
Looking for a Star Trek screencap? (TrekCore)
Looking for the right Star Trek typeface/font for your meme? (Thank you @kellyaster for putting this together!)
founded 11 months ago
MODERATORS
Also, he's kind of written as a nerd in a bad way; not bookish or introverted, or almost autistically passionate about one or two topics, but a sort of do-gooder ass-kisser. The kind of guy who'd rat you out for hacking the holodeck to have a booze-fueled orgy with a bunch of simulated women designed from an adolescent's ideal of unrealistic expectations.
Enterprise crew are supposed to be the best of Starfleet, having worked their way to the top of the lists to get there. Wesley's there because his mom made it on the list; there's no reason to expect he'd be any different from other teens: hormonally driven, prone to bad judgment and still figuring out life as a young adult. But that's not how he's written.
Put the Wesley character into any high school, and he'd be bullied. Even nerds wouldn't like him.
I mean, what you said: he's written as if by someone who's forgotten what it's like to be a teenager.
The kind of guy who’d rat you out for hacking the holodeck to have a booze-fueled orgy with a bunch of simulated women designed from an adolescent’s ideal of unrealistic expectations.
"There are some games I'm not ready for yet."
Bullshit, you'd be going to pound town the minute you got down to that planet and you would have broken their law by fucking your way onto that greenhouse.
He's very much a Mary Sue-type character.
And an important one in the History of the term Mary sue
There is no interpersonal conflict allowed in Gene's vision of Starfleet. Oh they might but heads occasionally, but every episode resolves with everyone putting their differences aside to work as a team. It's practically a cult mentality. Gene would not have let them write episodes telling those kinds of Dead-parent/Step-Parent/Oedipal stories. That doesn't exactly excuse the bad writing of the Wesley episodes, but it does explain why the writing did not go to those places.
found Wills alt, y’all
I wish Will would make a Lemmy account. I've always wanted to chat with him. Dude just seems legit fucking cool.
I'd just like to thank him for possibly changing my life. My husband had a tweenage crush on Wesley which caused him to be into nerdy guys like me as an adult. So I might be married thanks to Will's role on TNG.
He used to be pretty active on reddit, and he was pretty fucking cool. If you didn't hassle him and just had a conversation like he wasn't famous, he was even cooler.
I don't think he's using much of anything social media related frequently any more though, not on an account connected to him in an obvious way for sure. Can't say I blame him.
I've talked to him a few times in century club and around reddit/Google+ in the old days, he seems like a decent guy IMO
Didn't he have a mastodon account for a while? I think he accidentally got a TERFy blocklist and got harassed off the platform over it.
I still miss TableTop, really got me into Boardgames
I've thought that for a long time. I'd love if he'd hang out here, and would hope he'd be respected being here (like he wasn't on Reddit)
Well, at the time the main complaint people had was more about him being shoehorned into things in a way that didn't make sense combined with him being "superkid".
But yeah, I always thought the character was more of a positive than a negative, even when he was badly written. If nothing else, it gave younger viewers/fans a bit of a viewpoint character that was pretty rare in sci-fi that wasn't kid oriented to begin with.
Plus, Wheaton did damn fine job considering the scripts were sometimes not really good dialogue for him. Stilted, a bit too "I'm an adult trying to write a teenager, but can't actually remember what it was like"; and often not really about his character as much as they needed someone to do the things he was doing, and Wesley's turn came up. Hell, if you factor in the shit the guy was going through at home, he was amazing.
The whole show, including his character, dramatically improved as it went on. Wesley was awesome in that later episode with pre-Tom Paris.
"The First Duty" which is also arguably one of Picard's best speeches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UHlXzddaM8&t=120s
Had to look it up. That’s just good goddamn television.
I remember this one. I was like man, Wesley messed up.
Did you see the episode of lower decks that brought back "not tom paris"? Great episode they even put a lamp shade of him looking like tom.
I was disappointed in that move solely because it conflicts with my head canon that both characters were the same person going by a different name.
Obviously that’s a super nerdy complaint, though, and the writers did a great job using him as a foil for Mariner.
I’m unfamiliar with his home life. I know he’s publicly discussed mental health issues, has he been open about whatever happened at home?
Oh yeah, he went into it on his blog, and in more detail in an autobiography rerelease back in 2022. Plus a good bit of it in interviews after that.
Physical and mental abuse from his parents is the short version. Which is the root of his PTSD and related issues.
Damn. That sucks. I'm glad he's got himself together, even if it is a lot of work some days. He's always come across as a genuine and good dude.
Shut up Wesley.
He was a child prodigy on board a pretty cool starship, and he got away being annoying to the Captain. We all wanted to be in his shoes... but it was just a bloody fantasy. So we began to hate him.
I wanted to be Riker but ok
I wanted to be Data.
I wanted to be Barclay.
I wanted to be LaForge. Maybe a big part of me becoming an engineer.
Weird maneuver, but ok
I didn't hate him because I wanted to be him, I hated him because he was a gary stu, fellow-kids sort of character.
The only thing I really hate about the character of Wesley Crusher has nothing to do with the character himself, but the whole "chosen one" bullshit surrounding him.
Shut up, Wesley.
He's a Mary Sue. I know that term gets misused by misogynists for, "female character I don't like," but it was originally a term for Trekkies' self-insert fan-fic characters, and Wesley fits the trope perfectly: the youngest, smartest person to graduate Starfleet Academy/serve on a Starship, with unusual skills or special talents, who the ingratiates himself with the main cast, and finds himself at the center of major events despite his young age and low rank.
Because it awakens the bullies who don’t like smart kids. During that era it was common to pick on ‘the nerdy kid’ and it was considered the right of passage to be ‘cool’. Wesley embodies the type of victim a bully goes for.
The hate you refer to is more the issue with the bully rather than their targets. Wil Wheaton did a great speech about bullying.
Wesley Crusher was a wish fulfillment character for Gene Wesley Roddenberry (yes, that’s his real middle name). We don’t have a problem with smart kids, they just gotta stay in their lane: focus on school and hobbies, having fun, and chipping in the occasional good idea. When the “smart kid” gets written to be the ship’s last hope and miraculous saviour (on more than one occasion) it turns the show into a farce.
load more comments
(3 replies)
It's the perky brilliant kid mascot trope. It is a tired and fucked-out trope since about 1971. That's why the hate.
I can smell him right through the screen. What's it from?
can you give any references to this “trope” and it being “tired” by the time TNG first aired? Just curious what other shows had young brainiacs that so angered audiences to the point that they were fed up with the whole idea by TNG’s premiere.
He came across as the Scrappy Doo of Star Trek. Small and annoying.
For one thing, he grows up to be a dick.
He was such a turd in Eureka. It was great.
He was my favorite part of later seasons.
I would always laugh when he was being a dick. Just from every interview I've seen with the guy he comes across as a good one, and then here he was acting like he was. I kept imagining the director yelling "CUT!" and Wil immediately apologizing for the bullying.
I liked him that episode where he almost got mauled to death by Kai Winn.
There is nothing wrong with the character—it’s just generational hatred of the idea that there could be new star trek content and latching on to weird shit to complain about. Lots of “fans” complained about TNG when it first started airing.
He honestly has a pretty interesting character arc for the era and show he was a part of— being a young princeling, fucking up in school and ultimately realizing that he needed to go his own way and become a The Traveller (over the course of 7 seasons of episodic story telling admittedly so it’s a little woobly).
Agreed. There were a couple of scenes where he was kinda whiney, but overall i think he's a very compelling character who i enjoyed watching
view more: next ›