You know what happens when theories are tested and found out to be false?
They're no longer used.
this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2024
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Republicans: "Since when??"
Ivermectin, creationism, abstinence policy on anything, trickle-down; were you thinking of any of those theories?
Even a single red state 'leaving' the US would crush their house majority and deprive them of two senators. No way it happens.
Stop, now I want it to happen
Even better, since they receive more federal money than they give, we'd be left with excess money that can be used for states that actually give a damn about their people.
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Yeah, but they know a Democratic majority in the Senate will have just enough Manchins to be effectively a Republican majority.
I love how you're downvoted for saying something factually true. It's so insanely frustrating how much in denial Americans are about Democrats being center-right.
I agree about the centrist part, but not because of Manchin.
Manchin isn't some rotating villain conspiracy. He's from fucking West Virginia. What are you expecting? Dems don't vote in lockstep, and need more than the slimmest majority to legislate.
Republicans aren't much different. It's not like they're legislating.
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When I hear shit like this, it makes me think Sherman didn’t go far enough. He should’ve eradicated the South and given the land to the union. Slaveowners should’ve been arrested and stripped of their property rights. Southern states should’ve been dissolved and their governments reconstituted by the union.
The union should’ve crushed the south and occupied it like the US occupied Nazi Germany post-WWII.
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This is some insane logic. Wouldn't this work both ways? Couldn't the US say "sorry Texas, you seceded so your electoral college votes don't count."
"Not like that! I want all of the privilege but none of the responsibility. Why are you being so unreasonable?!"
- Republicans
Reminds me of Quebec. They wanted to separate from Canada but wanted to still use Canadian money and still have access to national Canadian programs.
It's not a pick and choose situation as much as you like it. You're either in the country and a part of it, or you're not.
Honestly, it's the story of conservatives literally everywhere.
Conservatives in UK: We want all of the benefits of being in the EU but not pay as much into it as those other countries, use our own money.
EU: SIGH Fine!
(Later)
Conservatives in UK: We want out! We can't stand the fact that non-white people can enter our country whenever they like. And we don't want refuges.
EU: Fine!
(Later, after brexit)
Conservatives: why can't we just travel to Europe like we used to?
What got me was wanting to be able to continue to have Canadian Passports.
A lot of these movements are dominated be people that have a lot of pride in their region (which is fine) but don't have a good grasp on international affairs to the point that they don't actually understand what it means to be a country.
They'd still be able to use Canadian money. There are eleven countries right now that use US currency as their official currency. The Canadian federal programs are right out, though.
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If these GOP governors actually gave a shit about fixing the border, they would be pushing the GOP congress to unblock the border bill. But they want the crisis to fester so they can campaign on it.
Opportunist scum.
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I invoke the Sherman Rebuke of Secession.
Speeding towards a 21st century version of American civil war doesn't seem the smartest thing to do. 🙄
As opposed to a 21st century version of the Jim Crow century? Ceding lawful Federal authority to ultraconservative states is nothing less than a cession of the rights of US society to ultraconservative cretins, and is notoriously hard to reverse.
You're right. The GOP is bonkers at this point.
Yeah. My thinking is that a forceful response by the US government will end up more "Ruby Bridges" than "Sherman's March", but we also must be ready for the latter if the GOP proves insane enough to escalate. I think it was Sherman who once wrote that the wages of tolerating secession would be eternal war, as local powers squabble and quarrel and attempt to oppress one another, and the central government becomes powerless and eventually withers away - or becomes authoritarian as people (foolishly) begin to yearn for a 'strong man' to restore order.
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Civil War in the U.S. is highly unlikely in the current economy. Firstly because big business would never allow that kind of hit to the stock market, but also because you're not going to get people leaving their families and going to the front lines when everyone is living paycheck-to-paycheck without a draft and good luck with trying to institute a draft.
Also… ya know, a big mismatch in technology. Sure a lot of folks have ARs and shit, some folks have Barret .50 cal sniper rifles. None of them have a fucking AH-64E Apache.
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but also because you’re not going to get people leaving their families and going to the front lines when everyone is living paycheck-to-paycheck without a draft and good luck with trying to institute a draft.
Sure you are. One of the first things every civil war starts out doing is paying soldiery. What better way to lure those living paycheck-to-paycheck than offering them a paycheck AND a cause?
Pay them with what? What money do you think Texas has?
Texas is in the top five states that receive federal aid.
And before you say oil, how are they going to export it with the US Navy blockading them? They don't have the ships to go up against the US Navy.
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They're not smart people.
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He’s got the US flag behind him, and he’s threatening to secede?!!
I mean his hero is a presidential candidate who is selling shirts that say 'No Surrender' under a photo of his mugshot, taken after he surrendered to the police.
Yeah but was volunteering to help out the police. Or something.
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At this point I think Biden needs to just call their bluff. He should come back with, "Okay, here's all the plans we've drawn up to go into effect as soon as you ratify your secession."
Then present the plans that include cessation of all federal subsidies to all public and private Texas entities, removal of all US military personnel and equipment, removal of all other federal agencies and personal (eg. Federal Border Patrol, Park rangers, IRS), removal of the Federal reserve in Dallas, the construction of border walls around the state in NM, OK, AR, and LA asking with placement of the removed border patrol there, and so on.
Let them stew for a bit and chew on just how utterly fucked this state (yeah I live in TX, and early awaiting the day we can leave) would be if they really did successfully secede.
You forgot one: We're gonna invade the nation of Texas, because they have oil.
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If they really did secede, I think it's a bit presumptuous to assume you would still have travel rights in the US. Better get out before it happens.
Like everything else, it's a risk trade-off calculation. On the one hand, I'd love to leave now, but If we leave before 2029, it could cost us potentially $1-3million in teacher retirement pension. (spread across 20-30+ years as my wife can retire quite early because she started so young)
So one must balance the risk of Texas really seceding vs the financial cost of leaving early.
At this stage, while it's a 'fun' (I use that term very loosely) thought experiment, I think the likelihood of Texas actually seceding is pretty low. If at some point it starts to look like it's actually likely, then we'll reevaluate if it makes sense to let go of that much money.
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Imagine Abraham Lincoln hearing this about his own Republican party.
Lincoln would not recognize the current republican party as his own. He'd call them pretenders and go back to chopping trees in the woods.
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Hmm some sort of crisis with the south nullifying federal laws. I wonder where we’ve seen that before?
Im only kidding, this isn’t really the same situation, but there’s definitely shades of gray shared.
Maybe more relation than you might think.
The southern border states rely on illegal immigration for cheap labour to suppress wages of citizens.
If President Biden doesn't come down hard on this he's going to be remembered as a second Buchanan.
The GOP wants him to take the bait. Their goal is to block humane border legislation, implement inhumane alternative solutions, and taunt Biden into removing the inhumane shit. That way they can campaign on “Biden wants to aggressively keep the status quo at the border.”
If Biden is going to crack down on Texas, he also needs to have some sort of big bold alternative thing in place.
I say to fucking take the bait. Come down hard, be a "tyrant" for once. Do what Lincoln did, suspend habeas corpus, declare martial law, slap every GOP Governor siding with this shit in handcuffs. They want to act like criminals, treat them as criminals.
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I don't know, it's really a lose lose either way. Biden is either too soft and the GOP calls it a win and does something worse, or he is too tough and he's called a dictator. I'd rather he take decisive action and put the fear of God in them than let it escalate and get even more immigrants killed. Honestly after the shipping migrants to liberal states stunt he should have thrown the book and/or CIA at 'em.
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Just one thing. They're going to claim he's lawless no matter what. He could give them everything they want and they will still claim it. He's already the most conservative Democrat president on the border in modern times.
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General Sherman should've finished the job.
Legal eagle just did a piece on this: https://youtu.be/1dhvry6E0jA?si=K9C7aTtOsaY1uPK_
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Weird, the right wing keeps trying to lie and imply that KKK/Confederates somehow have something to do with today's Democratic Party and not the conservative movement....
Huh.
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