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This week, Republican governors across the country escalated their conflict with the Biden administration over the southern border by invoking the same legal theory that slave states wielded to justify secession before the Civil War.

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott, joined by 25 other GOP governors, now argues that the Biden administration has violated the federal government’s “compact” with the states—an abdication that justifies state usurpation of federal authority at the border.

This language embraces the Confederacy’s conception of the Constitution as a mere compact that states may exit when they feel it has been broken. It’s dangerous rhetoric that transcends partisan grandstanding. And as before, it’s being used to legitimize both nullification and dehumanization.

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[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 124 points 8 months ago (2 children)

You know what happens when theories are tested and found out to be false?

They're no longer used.

[–] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 48 points 8 months ago

Republicans: "Since when??"

[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 24 points 8 months ago

Ivermectin, creationism, abstinence policy on anything, trickle-down; were you thinking of any of those theories?

[–] noride@lemm.ee 94 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Even a single red state 'leaving' the US would crush their house majority and deprive them of two senators. No way it happens.

[–] PugJesus@kbin.social 77 points 8 months ago

Stop, now I want it to happen

[–] DoomBot5@lemmy.world 32 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Even better, since they receive more federal money than they give, we'd be left with excess money that can be used for states that actually give a damn about their people.

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[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 21 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, but they know a Democratic majority in the Senate will have just enough Manchins to be effectively a Republican majority.

[–] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I love how you're downvoted for saying something factually true. It's so insanely frustrating how much in denial Americans are about Democrats being center-right.

[–] Serinus@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I agree about the centrist part, but not because of Manchin.

Manchin isn't some rotating villain conspiracy. He's from fucking West Virginia. What are you expecting? Dems don't vote in lockstep, and need more than the slimmest majority to legislate.

Republicans aren't much different. It's not like they're legislating.

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[–] phoneymouse@lemmy.world 83 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

When I hear shit like this, it makes me think Sherman didn’t go far enough. He should’ve eradicated the South and given the land to the union. Slaveowners should’ve been arrested and stripped of their property rights. Southern states should’ve been dissolved and their governments reconstituted by the union.

The union should’ve crushed the south and occupied it like the US occupied Nazi Germany post-WWII.

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[–] runswithjedi@lemmy.world 78 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

This is some insane logic. Wouldn't this work both ways? Couldn't the US say "sorry Texas, you seceded so your electoral college votes don't count."

[–] CosmicTurtle@lemmy.world 53 points 8 months ago (3 children)

"Not like that! I want all of the privilege but none of the responsibility. Why are you being so unreasonable?!"

  • Republicans
[–] WashedOver@lemmy.ca 31 points 8 months ago (7 children)

Reminds me of Quebec. They wanted to separate from Canada but wanted to still use Canadian money and still have access to national Canadian programs.

It's not a pick and choose situation as much as you like it. You're either in the country and a part of it, or you're not.

[–] CosmicTurtle@lemmy.world 43 points 8 months ago

Honestly, it's the story of conservatives literally everywhere.

Conservatives in UK: We want all of the benefits of being in the EU but not pay as much into it as those other countries, use our own money.

EU: SIGH Fine!

(Later)

Conservatives in UK: We want out! We can't stand the fact that non-white people can enter our country whenever they like. And we don't want refuges.

EU: Fine!

(Later, after brexit)

Conservatives: why can't we just travel to Europe like we used to?

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 10 points 8 months ago

What got me was wanting to be able to continue to have Canadian Passports.

A lot of these movements are dominated be people that have a lot of pride in their region (which is fine) but don't have a good grasp on international affairs to the point that they don't actually understand what it means to be a country.

[–] VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

They'd still be able to use Canadian money. There are eleven countries right now that use US currency as their official currency. The Canadian federal programs are right out, though.

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[–] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 67 points 8 months ago (1 children)

If these GOP governors actually gave a shit about fixing the border, they would be pushing the GOP congress to unblock the border bill. But they want the crisis to fester so they can campaign on it.

Opportunist scum.

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[–] PugJesus@kbin.social 61 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I invoke the Sherman Rebuke of Secession.

[–] girlfreddy@lemmy.ca 21 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Speeding towards a 21st century version of American civil war doesn't seem the smartest thing to do. 🙄

[–] PugJesus@kbin.social 79 points 8 months ago (2 children)

As opposed to a 21st century version of the Jim Crow century? Ceding lawful Federal authority to ultraconservative states is nothing less than a cession of the rights of US society to ultraconservative cretins, and is notoriously hard to reverse.

[–] girlfreddy@lemmy.ca 25 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You're right. The GOP is bonkers at this point.

[–] PugJesus@kbin.social 33 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yeah. My thinking is that a forceful response by the US government will end up more "Ruby Bridges" than "Sherman's March", but we also must be ready for the latter if the GOP proves insane enough to escalate. I think it was Sherman who once wrote that the wages of tolerating secession would be eternal war, as local powers squabble and quarrel and attempt to oppress one another, and the central government becomes powerless and eventually withers away - or becomes authoritarian as people (foolishly) begin to yearn for a 'strong man' to restore order.

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[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 16 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Civil War in the U.S. is highly unlikely in the current economy. Firstly because big business would never allow that kind of hit to the stock market, but also because you're not going to get people leaving their families and going to the front lines when everyone is living paycheck-to-paycheck without a draft and good luck with trying to institute a draft.

[–] zigmus64@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago (6 children)

Also… ya know, a big mismatch in technology. Sure a lot of folks have ARs and shit, some folks have Barret .50 cal sniper rifles. None of them have a fucking AH-64E Apache.

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[–] PugJesus@kbin.social 12 points 8 months ago (1 children)

but also because you’re not going to get people leaving their families and going to the front lines when everyone is living paycheck-to-paycheck without a draft and good luck with trying to institute a draft.

Sure you are. One of the first things every civil war starts out doing is paying soldiery. What better way to lure those living paycheck-to-paycheck than offering them a paycheck AND a cause?

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Pay them with what? What money do you think Texas has?

Texas is in the top five states that receive federal aid.

And before you say oil, how are they going to export it with the US Navy blockading them? They don't have the ships to go up against the US Navy.

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[–] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 10 points 8 months ago

They're not smart people.

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[–] Tristaniopsis@aussie.zone 57 points 8 months ago (4 children)

He’s got the US flag behind him, and he’s threatening to secede?!!

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 63 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I mean his hero is a presidential candidate who is selling shirts that say 'No Surrender' under a photo of his mugshot, taken after he surrendered to the police.

[–] Tristaniopsis@aussie.zone 11 points 8 months ago

Yeah but was volunteering to help out the police. Or something.

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[–] doubletwist@lemmy.world 43 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

At this point I think Biden needs to just call their bluff. He should come back with, "Okay, here's all the plans we've drawn up to go into effect as soon as you ratify your secession."

Then present the plans that include cessation of all federal subsidies to all public and private Texas entities, removal of all US military personnel and equipment, removal of all other federal agencies and personal (eg. Federal Border Patrol, Park rangers, IRS), removal of the Federal reserve in Dallas, the construction of border walls around the state in NM, OK, AR, and LA asking with placement of the removed border patrol there, and so on.

Let them stew for a bit and chew on just how utterly fucked this state (yeah I live in TX, and early awaiting the day we can leave) would be if they really did successfully secede.

[–] xantoxis@lemmy.world 32 points 8 months ago (2 children)

You forgot one: We're gonna invade the nation of Texas, because they have oil.

[–] ThirdWorldOrder@lemm.ee 10 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You mean bring them Freedom ™

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[–] mrcleanup@lemmy.world 19 points 8 months ago (8 children)

If they really did secede, I think it's a bit presumptuous to assume you would still have travel rights in the US. Better get out before it happens.

[–] doubletwist@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Like everything else, it's a risk trade-off calculation. On the one hand, I'd love to leave now, but If we leave before 2029, it could cost us potentially $1-3million in teacher retirement pension. (spread across 20-30+ years as my wife can retire quite early because she started so young)

So one must balance the risk of Texas really seceding vs the financial cost of leaving early.

At this stage, while it's a 'fun' (I use that term very loosely) thought experiment, I think the likelihood of Texas actually seceding is pretty low. If at some point it starts to look like it's actually likely, then we'll reevaluate if it makes sense to let go of that much money.

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[–] OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 43 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Imagine Abraham Lincoln hearing this about his own Republican party.

[–] Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee 23 points 8 months ago

Lincoln would not recognize the current republican party as his own. He'd call them pretenders and go back to chopping trees in the woods.

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[–] Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml 41 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Hmm some sort of crisis with the south nullifying federal laws. I wonder where we’ve seen that before?

Im only kidding, this isn’t really the same situation, but there’s definitely shades of gray shared.

[–] Kbin_space_program@kbin.social 38 points 8 months ago

Maybe more relation than you might think.
The southern border states rely on illegal immigration for cheap labour to suppress wages of citizens.

[–] njm1314@lemmy.world 38 points 8 months ago (2 children)

If President Biden doesn't come down hard on this he's going to be remembered as a second Buchanan.

[–] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 21 points 8 months ago (4 children)

The GOP wants him to take the bait. Their goal is to block humane border legislation, implement inhumane alternative solutions, and taunt Biden into removing the inhumane shit. That way they can campaign on “Biden wants to aggressively keep the status quo at the border.”

If Biden is going to crack down on Texas, he also needs to have some sort of big bold alternative thing in place.

[–] AutistoMephisto@lemmy.world 19 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I say to fucking take the bait. Come down hard, be a "tyrant" for once. Do what Lincoln did, suspend habeas corpus, declare martial law, slap every GOP Governor siding with this shit in handcuffs. They want to act like criminals, treat them as criminals.

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[–] Machinist3359@kbin.social 18 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I don't know, it's really a lose lose either way. Biden is either too soft and the GOP calls it a win and does something worse, or he is too tough and he's called a dictator. I'd rather he take decisive action and put the fear of God in them than let it escalate and get even more immigrants killed. Honestly after the shipping migrants to liberal states stunt he should have thrown the book and/or CIA at 'em.

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[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Just one thing. They're going to claim he's lawless no matter what. He could give them everything they want and they will still claim it. He's already the most conservative Democrat president on the border in modern times.

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[–] LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works 26 points 8 months ago

General Sherman should've finished the job.

[–] Badeendje@lemmy.world 24 points 8 months ago (2 children)
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[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 22 points 8 months ago

Weird, the right wing keeps trying to lie and imply that KKK/Confederates somehow have something to do with today's Democratic Party and not the conservative movement....

Huh.

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