this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2023
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[–] alienanimals@lemmy.world 129 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Turbo Tax is the reason why the government doesn't just give you a number to pay. The process could be easy, but the giant corporation Intuit and their political lobbying is why it sucks.

[–] Zoboomafoo@lemmy.world 74 points 11 months ago (2 children)

TurboTax plus Republicans wanting to make paying taxes as difficult as possible so people will vote to cut taxes

[–] nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 29 points 11 months ago

rich donors want it complex so they can keep finding the loop holes that let them pay nothing most years.

[–] redballooon@lemm.ee 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Which is not a solution because just because while you pay less taxes you still have to go through the process

[–] Natanael@slrpnk.net 9 points 11 months ago

They want people to be mad at having to pay taxes

[–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 21 points 11 months ago (2 children)

The IRS is actually going test pilot such a program in a few states in the near future.

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[–] Baku@aussie.zone 7 points 11 months ago

America moment

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[–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 103 points 11 months ago (4 children)

The IRS is actually testing a new system where they just tell you how much you owe/get, and that's it unless there's unreported income and such that needs to be corrected.

[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 39 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Also, the IRS only escalates straight to jail if it's incredibly obvious you're intentionally committing tax fraud. If your forms are wrong they just send you a letter to fix it.

[–] Aviandelight@mander.xyz 29 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I wish more people were aware of this. One year I made a rather significant number entry error and should have owed a couple thousand more than I paid. I got a fairly routine letter later in the year asking me to correct the error. I had a little mental panic, reran the numbers, and filed an amended return. There was no pressure, you always have payment options, and they send you back another letter confirming the acceptance of the amended file. I understand that many people would have significant problems paying extra unexpectedly but unless you are actively committing fraud you are not an immediate priority for the IRS.

[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

And if you can't afford to pay it all in one go, they will work with you to set up a payment plan. If you can pay it off in 6 months it's basically a non-issue.

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[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 24 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Link? I will instantly use it. Mostly to stick it to Intuit.

[–] dantheclamman@lemmy.world 24 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Turbotax has entered the chat. Turbotax has DMed your senator a couple hundred thousand to make sure you will never be able to use this

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago

I'm not going to lie; there is a threshold where just being a complete tribal savage is easier than dealing with the beauracacy. If it becomes too time consuming, expensive, and stressful to do taxes, I will squat in the soon-to-be ruins of business real estate and hunt the local pigeon and duck populations to survive.

[–] CuddlyCassowary@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They decide who is in the pilot at this point, not us.

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago (2 children)

That hurts, hope it comes to the public.

[–] SquishMallow@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It will. Takes time to test and roll things out

[–] Decoy321@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

You are severely underestimating the tax prep lobbyists. The IRS has been trying to do this for decades.

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[–] HiddenLayer5@lemmy.ml 21 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Why that isn't the default to begin with is anyone's guess

[–] sigswitch@lemm.ee 19 points 11 months ago

I mean it's not really. Lobbying. Lobbying is the reason.

[–] lobut@lemmy.ca 11 points 11 months ago

It's the default in places like the UK. Tax companies gotta get in there and stall progress for profit.

[–] Xanthrax@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (5 children)

It's already like this with free tax returns. It just sucks you have to go through Intuit, because of their lobbying. The government is also counting on you to not properly doing your taxes. They want you to be lazy and pay more in taxes, for the convenience.

They don't want to come after people who aren't paying their taxes. They're making it inconvenient to file, so poor people who don't have time/ knowledge overpay.

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[–] LEDZeppelin@lemmy.world 48 points 11 months ago

In reality -

Me: $600

IRS: are you a billionaire?

Me: what if I am?

IRS: $600 is too much

[–] repungnant_canary@lemmy.world 39 points 11 months ago (12 children)

Okay, so I get the reason why NOWADAYS IRS can't tell you how much taxes you owe is lobbying. But how did it work BEFORE computers? Did you file your forms and IRS agents checked them one by one, and it was just most efficient to check taxes instead of calculating them? How did we get to the situation where the IRS checks the taxes instead of calculating them? I'm genuinely curious, because that's a recurring theme worldwide.

[–] Obi@sopuli.xyz 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Not in the Netherlands, there it's all calculated for you and you just do the checking. If you have a more complicated situation like self employment or other stuff you may want to hire an accountant that will not only double check but also make sure you get the best outcome by doing some strange wizardry but for most people it's literally just go online, check the salary numbers etc, click okay and get some cash back to your account.

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[–] ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world 37 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Damn y'all Americans really do taxes weird

[–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 33 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's because our country is a corporate oligarchy.

[–] ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago (3 children)
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[–] PP_BOY_@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Americans as a whole are very stupid and don't realize that the overwhelming majority of them can file for free. In fact, 100% of Americans can self-file (for free) if they can handle about an hour of basic paperwork, but for 70% of Americans, you can file taxes for free in less than twenty minutes. It's not hard at all.

But most people would rather Google "how to file taxes," click on the first sponsored link they see, and buy something before they ever actually try to do even a minute of research.

[–] ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Tbf as a Swede I just log in, glance at the forms, sign and log out. That's what easy is.

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[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 17 points 11 months ago (1 children)

In the Netherlands, AFAIK (and please correct me if I'm wrong), the government tells you how much it is and you can make your own filing that contains various deductions that the government doesn't know about that can make the amount to pay lower. The system still has a few issues here and there but it's much better than the US, like just about anything these days

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[–] Kit@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 11 months ago (6 children)

I'm so tired of paying HR Block $300/year to do my taxes, which has no tax return because I do my deductions carefully. Why can't we have a straightforward system like the rest of the world??

[–] Kid_Thunder@kbin.social 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Because Congress creates really, really complicated tax laws that reduce tax burdens for business losses and obviously favor a structure that if you're wealthy enough you can exploit it for things that aren't actually contributing to our economy. Regular person with a few deductions that might go over a standard deduction? You might want some help with that, even if you're "doing it yourself" with the help of software (just like almost all of tax preparers do) or if you're just doing a standard deduction, it is easy.

Why can't you just fill out a 1040EZ in a webform and file online through the IRS?

Companies like Intuit lobby Congress so that the IRS can't just make it easy for most people. For example, the IRS wanted to just have their own app on a website to help you do your taxes for free just like TurboTax but nope.

As an example, you can specifically blame Intuit as an example that has actively tried to limit the IRS making tax filing free and easy for most Americans.

The same thing has happened with weather in the US. NOAA/NWS pretty much provides all weather data and RADAR data to the public for free. They also provide a public API and all those weather apps either directly or indirectly get their data from there for the US.

Why don't they have an app like all these weather services do? Well companies lobbied so NWS isn't allowed to. The best they can do is provide a website that you can "use like an app." Paying extra for that up-to-date RADAR feed in your weather app? Guess what? You already did through taxes and now you get to pay a private company to simply display it in their interface.

You can specifically blame AccuWeather as an example of a company that actively has tried to limit the NWS and actually lock the public out of the data that they paid for through taxes.

Congress has the power to end this non-sense but does not. I'm sure this won't surprise anyone when I say this but US law is slanted towards empowering businesses and lowering accountability.

[–] CosmicTurtle@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

FreeTaxUSA provides free federal filing, including Schedule C (Self-Employeed) and Schedule E (Rental Income). I'm sure they have more scenarios.

You pay for state but it's usually a $12-15.

You can import your TurboTax/HR Block returns and it mostly does a good job bringing it in.

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[–] AmberPrince@kbin.social 12 points 11 months ago (4 children)

How it actually works is that the IRS doesn't known how much you need to pay. You provide your income and taxes already paid throughout the year then the IRS says "yeah, looks about right for what you made" or here's money back you paid to much or didn't pay enough. It only gets complicated when you have huge amounts of money.

[–] cm0002@lemmy.world 32 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's still dumb AF, they could easily do like many other countries do and send you a breakdown of what you owe/getting back and why. You look it over and go "looks good to me" and have to do nothing or "This part is wrong" or "I qualify for Y tax break/incentive/credit" and then file some proof and you're done.

But the tax prep companies lobby really hard to keep things as difficult as they are

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[–] Mamertine@lemmy.world 20 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Your employer is required to submit the amount you were paid and the taxes that were withheld. The IRS knows how much you owe assuming that is your one source of income and you don't have deductions beyond the standard.

[–] Changetheview@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

Exactly. The IRS has TONS of information on every individual and business. There may be some unreported items, but that’s the exception to the rule.

The IRS has a “transcript” with all of the many reported transactions associated with each person/entity. And you can request this transcript, which many people with complicated tax situations do so they can verify that everything is reported correctly and their records match the IRS data.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/get-transcript

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[–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago

That's only true if you're getting paid cash under the table, make tips, or are self-employed. Your job reports your earnings to the IRS.

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[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I've often thought it would be fun to just punch in some random numbers, send it off and say that I owe $10, pay the amount and let them figure it out ... they already do anyway.

But I know that if I do, they'd probably make me pay financially or legally anyway.

[–] Endorkend@kbin.social 10 points 11 months ago

Meanwhile here, come tax time I get a letter and only people that have special things going on like stuff they would get subsidies for (like installing solar panels or insulating), will have to alter what the letter says. Most everyone else can ignore the letter as all their taxes have been paid in full or they get something back.

[–] kttnpunk@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I actually haven't done my taxes in like 2 years due to extreme poverty (in the u.s you don't have to file if your income is under a certain threshold) I think I'm still under that, but I still should probably file this year right? Is there anything specific I should do? Maybe not the best place to ask, but I hate financial anything so I'd really appreciate some advice

[–] pokemaster787@ani.social 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

in the u.s you don’t have to file if your income is under a certain threshold

You don't have to but also if you're under that threshold you would almost certainly be getting a refund of all of the taxes you paid that year. So I highly recommend filing even if you don't need to

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