this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2023
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[–] Mr_Mofu@lemmy.blahaj.zone 35 points 11 months ago (9 children)

The absolute Toxicity in this thread is just so depressing the see. Lemmy, I thought you where better then this... I thought this was supposed to be reddit without the petty toxicity in every comment section...

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 24 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Techbros don't understand art and at the moment lemmy is full of techbros

[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 10 points 11 months ago (4 children)

If you think art and tech are separate things, then you understand neither.

What do you think video games are made on? Painting canvases?

~Sincerely, an artist that works in IT.

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Umm when did I say 'artists don't understand the tech that they need'? OTOH say something about AI generated content and you have techbros coming out of woodworks to give their hot takes while they can't even draw a stick figure.

[–] LemmysMum@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'll cry about not being able to use a pencil over my fancy keyboard. I wonder how many traditional artists make their own brushes and pencils.

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No matter how hard you try, downloading models from civitai and typing shit into stable diffusion doesn't make you an artist

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[–] VinesNFluff@pawb.social 6 points 11 months ago

These are not the same thing and you know it, despite your gaslighting.

People using technology to express themselves is not the same as asking a fully automated plagiarism device to create shit by copying other shit.

It never will be.

The human input is where we go from 'reproduction' to 'art', and is why photography counts as art despite just capturing real things, because a human is behind it. Sets what's on camera. Expression.

AI "Art" is not expression and never will be. It's just tracing with extra steps.

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[–] SkippingRelax@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

What a stupid take what does that even mean?

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Exactly what it says. Techbros don't understand art.

[–] SkippingRelax@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

Edgy, did you come up with that all by yourself?

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[–] Kedly@lemm.ee 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Its funny when a side only has fear mongering and elitism to its name, and then wonders why they dont get more people on their side

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago (3 children)

You keep using that word.

It doesn't mean what you think it means.

If anything you're an elite using expensive technology which has unethically consumed art to regurgitate it.

Pick up a pencil and put in the work instead of benefiting from work of exploited artists.

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[–] Sabre363@sh.itjust.works 23 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Yeah, I'm noticing a nearly complete disregard for actual artists to the point where I can pretty much guess who is and isn't an artist in this thread.

[–] Kedly@lemm.ee 13 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Artists burnt out my empathy towards them with their elitism and fear mongering. They arent special in capitalism's march to take our livelihoods away from us, but they decided to lash out at their own class instead of lashing out at the corporations taking their jobs

[–] kumatomic@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Funny, I don't remember lashing out. I just wanted to use my art to make sense of the life changes my disability has brought about. Fuck corporations every day, but you're no better lumping every artist together as this monster in your head. Your empathy isn't as important as you think it is.

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[–] Dreadfighter23@sh.itjust.works 9 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Maybe that's because their own class is stealing and emulating their art without permission, sometimes even on purpose as a "fuck you" to them. In this case it's not just the corporations screwing them over.

[–] Kedly@lemm.ee 10 points 11 months ago (4 children)

They've decided to brand what the AI does as stealing in order to twist the narrative. It isnt stealing when the images are generated from scratch. And because they are using full manipulative tactics to enhance their fear mongering, they deserve ever bit of fuck you's they can get

[–] Loki@feddit.de 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Generated from scratch? How do you think AI generates images? They need to be trained on images to produce anything coherent, there is no "generated from scratch" with AI (well, DL like stable diffusion)

[–] Kedly@lemm.ee 4 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Do you think humans create art in a vacuum? They dont, they use all the art they have ever seen or grown up around for inspiration. Do you owe Disney a cut because their movies as a child inspired you to get into art?

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[–] LemmysMum@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Their own class is making FOSS tools like Stable Diffusion and training models on copyright free sources and AI generated imagery, the corporations are the only ones stealing.

[–] Dreadfighter23@sh.itjust.works 8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Well there was the incident with voice actress Erica Lindbeck where someone used AI tools to make a song using her voice. That doesn't fall under any laws currently but it's still an asshole thing to do, without first getting permission. Or how about when someone was making AI art in someone else's style and even tried to credit the original artist as if they were the creator.

[–] LemmysMum@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

New tools new problems new solutions. Identity theft has always existed, it's time for society to realise everything they contribute can now be socialised as knowledge and information for all, including our voices. Other voice actresses, like the one who voiced Lydia for Skyrim, also requested that her voice not be used for mods and facsimiles, this was for the most part respected by the creator community, but can't be enforced, and any person with less clout won't have any control over their exposure any more. Society will have to accept that our physical likenesses are publicly accessible information than can be replicated, this was always going to become the case, recording information is what humans do best. Next up, thoughts and memories.

[–] Armen12@lemm.ee 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

So you hate art, not unusual coming from someone who complains about the "elites" which we all know what that's code word for

[–] Kedly@lemm.ee 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Lmao, nice stealth edit asshole. Nowhere did I say elites. By class meant people who work for a living and barely get by, those who have absolutely ZERO impact on an artists ability to get by. But no, I don t hate art, I love it. I hate elitISM as in the shit you're pulling by determining what does and doesnt classify as art, and I hate people like you, which a lot of artists are deciding to lean towards in their fear

[–] VinesNFluff@pawb.social 5 points 11 months ago (9 children)

"Their own class" like the kind of techbro that uses AI "art" counts as an artist in any way, shape, or form. 💀

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[–] SkippingRelax@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Most of my friends that are creative make art for themselves first. Some of them make a few bucks here and there and a small fraction of them makes a living with their art. None of them seem worried, their main concern is making art.

Egat i see in this thread is a problem with having a shitty business model if today's AI is really putting you out of business. Any other technology improvement would have wiped you away regardless. Like I'm picturing people designing logos and all of a sudden becoming useless and complaining that that can't make art any more

[–] adam_y@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Yeah, but here's a thing, if you want all of your art made by the middle classes and the financially secure, this is how we proceed.

[–] LemmysMum@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

With FOSS AIgen tools like Stable Diffusion and copyright free community resources like https://www.civitai.com? Express yourself. Referral link if you want to make something: https://civitai.com/login?ref_code=LOR-IYG

[–] VinesNFluff@pawb.social 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

My man are you paid to advertise these guys?

You plugged them on every reply lmao.

[–] LemmysMum@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'm confused, are you against independent artists using copyright free FOSS tools to express themselves and each other?

[–] VinesNFluff@pawb.social 5 points 11 months ago (15 children)

Uh-huh, is this copyright free FOSS tool fed on scraping images from art sites without the artists' consent or even knowledge?

Give me proof that is not the case, and maybe I'll shut up and at least go "okay, have fun with your computer-aided collages, at least they are dodging the worst of this fundamentally unethical invention".

Also lmao at prompt-writing being "art" or "expression" in any way. Reproducing someone else's shit is not expression.

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[–] 257m@sh.itjust.works 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Well by definition most of us aren't artists. Artists are a small minority. It would be pretty easy to guess who isn't an artist by just claiming everyone isn't except for the people explicitly say they are and it would be like 98 percent true.

[–] Sabre363@sh.itjust.works 9 points 11 months ago

True, but some of these people are making it pretty obvious even if they don't explicitly say anything.

[–] unreasonabro@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

like i've pointed out elsewhere in the thread, this is a place where people who hate another thing go. you're kidding yourself looking for utopia here. Lemmy is a clone, not something actually different.

[–] Mr_Mofu@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Non of that excuses the toxicity. We as a community have to collectively fight against this type of thing. Toxicity should have no place here, or anywhere for that matter. Ofcourse thats a pretty utopian mindset of its own im aware, but we have to atleast try. Because the second we allow it to be normalized, everything will go even further to shit

[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

This is not a monolithic community, it's an online link aggregator / forum

[–] 0xD@infosec.pub 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

It's not an excuse, it's an explanation. There is no community here, there are many. Your words, unfortunately, ring hollow.

There are a few communities here that are great, but so many from the front page are just toxic junk, be it regarding economics or politics. I find myself closing comment sections and not interacting here way more often than in the past on reddit - so much childishness, it's quite sad.

But I also have to say that I find it too annoying and empty here to properly build my front page with my interests, so I'm just cruising on the Everything page. Since there are no limits here for Everything like on reddit, of course I (we) have to dig through all the intellectual trash too. I want to block that toxic shithole hexbear so bad.

[–] sgbrain7@lemm.ee 17 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'm ticked at how everyone is blindly jumping on the AI art train. None of these comments praising it even have any downvotes. It's really disheartening.

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[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Why would it be different? Many folks here commented on Reddit to. There's no like... Firewall

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[–] SkippingRelax@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I don't really see much toxicity. Some people are just afraid of change, and ai is just another technology jump, most of what Ive read in rhis thread so far is about this being similar tothe introduction of photoshop. A bit less fearmongering would go a long way, and this might be an opportunity for those artists that are being impacted to review and improve their business model if it's really that delicate ai is not their only concern

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[–] kumatomic@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 11 months ago

Yeah, I especially expected more out of 196 especially. I saw people attacking someone in droves today for being entitled for posting something mildly infuriating in mildly infuriating. It's like everyone here is just looking to lash out.

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