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You are surrounded with workaholic, misogynists. My company gives full pay for 12 weeks for mothers and fathers. Several of my coworkers, mostly men, have used their leave in full (usually 9 weeks together and the other 3 broken up). Nobody ever looks down on people for taking leave.
Maybe they would take all of it if it was for full pay. Ya'll motherfuckers need a union.
The "work yourself to death" is a stupid boomer concept. It's a hugely negative aspect of traditional masculinity.
When people say weird stuff like this, I always question why. Why would you have a kid and then work so hard to be away from it? Why would you work for a company that will lay you off the moment it earns them a higher stock price to do so? (no modern company deserves your loyalty.) Why would you brag about suffering instead of relaxing?
I understand that we're all wired differently but those values literally don't make sense to me.
The "work yourself to death" is a stupid boomer concept. It's a hugely negative aspect of traditional masculinity.
At least for boomers, loyalty was often rewarded with promotions, bonuses, and generous pensions. But these days companies will work you to death and then fire you for a 0.0001% boost to their quarterly profits. They'll fire 10,000 people just so the billionaire shareholders can earn 1% more.
almost bragging how little time they took after their kids were born
I had a coworker bragging about lying to his wife that he couldn't take time off. This is fucked up on so many levels: why even have a kid? Why do you lie to your wife? Why are you telling people you barey know (I had been there for like two weeks) that you lie to your wife? WTF?
I feel like I’m missing something.
Maybe they're insecure? They don't know what to do with the new kid, and instead of figuring it out together with their partner they run back to the things they know and hide behind a fake martyrdom. I wonder how many of them will in a few months or years say that women are "naturals" when it comes to taking care of kids.
Congrats on the kid and on being an actual dad!
In my work environment (in the US), people have roughly this much paternity leave, and it is taken for granted that they will take it because this is viewed as important even if their absence during this time inconveniences the rest of us. They often split it up, though, instead of taking it in a single contiguous chunk.
Paternity leave saved my life when I was a young father with an ill wife. Take as much time as you can.
Also, side note, the year I took off of work to care for them when my sons were small (3 and 5) I look back on as one of the best decisions I ever made. Despite the fact we were flirting with homelessness, the bonding and memories made a huge impact on them, and now that they're adults, we have an amazing relationship that far surpasses the distant bond I have with my own father.
this is part of your compensation. you pay state taxes for it. And you deserve it. decades of corporate propaganda has made most people believe they don't deserve leave at all. ignore the haters and take your leave.
I’m a dad of two, and in my country (Norway) it’s mostly common to divide the leave. With my first, I had 9 months of paternity leave, 6 months with my youngest. The two best periods of my life!
Here in Ireland I got a meagre 2 weeks (but took an additional 2 weeks unpaid!)
Don't feel bad. I'm a man in the USA working in a corporate office. When my son was born I took my time off and it was fantastic for bonding with my son and helping my wife out. Honestly IDK how so many women do it alone.
I'd feel worse about making my wife work extra hard than my colleagues... That said, the person covering my area screwed everything up so badly I decided it was better to find a new job vs fix it. So I took my three months, worked a week and put in my notice and got paid out for another two months of accrued leave.
Today I witnessed a group of coworkers almost bragging how little time they took after their kids were born. I've heard stuff like "Most men are hard working and want to support their families so they don't take leave".
Toxic masculinity.
This is textbook toxic masculinity.
A lot of people misuse the term, but this is an excellent example. The men involved lose out on something amazing due to it being 'unmanly'.
I'll never have biological children of my own and I'll never get to use that benefit. From a strictly selfish standpoint, it stings a bit that pretty much all my heterosexual friends and coworkers, male and female, get a minimum of 12 - 36 weeks of paid time off that I'll never get.
Having said that, I'm genuinely happy that they get it, I think it's a shame that 12 weeks per child isn't a minimum standard for paternity & maternity leave. In the professional settings I've worked in that offer paternity leave, I've never experienced a coworker complaining or making fun of a man taking paternity leave, nor have I ever heard of a man NOT taking paternity leave when it's offered.
The places I've worked that offer it also usually offer flexible leave, so it's very common for new dads to take 4 - 6 weeks off at birth, and then work a reduced schedule for the remaining time until they're out of leave, after which they return full time. Even some of the moms are doing that as well, basically maximizing the amount of time that at least one parent is on leave and at home with the newborn.
But, outside of professional settings and particularly within conservative/Republican family and acquaintances, typically lower-to-middle class people, they act like paternity leave is ridiculous. My dad laughed out loud a while back when I mentioned I was taking over a new project because my coworker was about to go on paternity leave "What? Are you serious?" In my opinion, "toxic masculinity" aka stupid, ignorant, and useless concepts of overly rigid gender stereotypes is where this type of opinion is rooted. That and probably a good degree of jealousy.
You should start “smoking”. Protected breaks every set timeframe. Your work doesn’t matter, you need to “chase the dragon” as it’s culturally protected. Why take a few months all at once for a kid when you can take 15 min over a longer time and rack up much more time overall?
Combine that with taking a dump at work and suddenly hours are devoted away from the task… maternity leave is just their version of work / life balance.
Like mat leave I don’t really think about it, to me it’s just assumed
I was really close to my dad and I LOOOOVEEE that you're doing this. You're showing your child and the world that dad should take an equal share, especially post birth when mum is likely to need additional support. Your post is nothing short of inspirational!
I think a lot of the pushback can be chalked up to jealousy as well. If you are living paycheck to paycheck, then you can’t afford to take a 15% pay cut. Then of course, you taking leave means that they will have added responsibilities until you get back as well.
But it’s your right, if you can afford it then you absolutely should take it if that’s what you want. You can’t get this time back
Those people are jealous fucking idiots. 12 weeks is hardly anything. You get a fucking year for each parent in Norway
I went through the same thing when I took my paternity leave. Other male coworkers bragged about how they went back to work the day after their kid was born.
It's a culture thing where our society is conditioned to be boot lickers for the ruling class. I responded to them at the time, "Congratulations on being a bad father, I'm going to take every day entitled to me"
Don't fall into their trap.
Yup. Had old union buddies I was talking to after my first, and I brought up that he had a diaper blowout earlier, and they were like "I've never changed a diaper in my life!"
Just told them " damn, I'd be too embarrassed to admit I were that bad of a father in public..."
I find it hilarious when people brag about things they think are cool but it just makes them look like dumbasses.
"Lol I can drink 24 beers in one sitting"
"I never call in sick, I can be hacking up a lung and I'm still there at the office"
On and on...
I think it’s an important time and should be available to any working American without exception. When my first child was born, I remember asking HR about paternity leave and their deadpan response was “how many vacation days do you have?” Disgusting.
In Sweden, we have 16 months of parental that can be split between parents.
Nurses do house check-ups for the first few months and it's great for both parents to ask questions and get advice.
These guys who have the option but decline caring for thier family sound like shitty partners/dad's
I did 6 months for each of my kids and it was great.
I had both my kids before this existed. I would have killed to have 12 weeks paid off to be with my new family. Getting exactly zero days off when you are a new dad SUCKS.
Your coworkers are fucking idiots.
I too recognize that this person's coworkers are fucking idiots.
I three recognize that this person's coworkers are fucking idiots.
My thoughts:
We have it at my work (just called paid parental leave) and the guys seem to really consider it a benefit, they take it. Like you. Nobody has ever said anything but Congratulations. This is in Florida. You ARE supporting your family. I got 0 weeks paid when I gave birth, I'm really happy this is starting to change. Parenting is valuable work.
Holy cow, that is a strange concept - I was coming back to add some of the hate you’re getting might be from affordability. Any paternity leave you can get in the US is usually vacation and unpaid. No one can afford much of that. That’s amazing that you still get an income to support taking care of your new child
Someone else pointed out that they wouldn't be able to survive off of 85% pay without finding gig/temp work. And I'll admit, I'm in a fortunate enough position now that I didn't put much thought into that 15% being detrimental. We'll surely blow through most of our savings and that'll hurt, but we'll be alright.
With my first son I was working 2 jobs when he was born and we were already well behind on a lot of bills so the thought of leave didn't ever begin to cross my mind. It does make me even more appreciative of the position we're in now.
That math doesn't make sense unless the mother is a stay at home mom. A lot of dads that I know who took their leave staggered it with the mom; a 15% reduction in wage is a lot cheaper than paying for child care.
I don’t know what to say to you.
In Canada we get 18 months which can be 12 maternity and 6 paternity, or a combo of say 15 and 3.
The amazing thing is that it’s amazing to such a rich country that we look after our people.
I was so mad that I only had 1 week of PTO to take care of my wife and son after the rough birth. Thankfully some friends pulled us into their place to help take care of my wife while I had to work, otherwise she would have had to get grippy socks....
I fucking hate this country.
The only way the masses ever get what they are owed is through large scale violence
I got a new job before our second. No PTO at all so I took 2 weeks unpaid. My wife needed me for much longer than I was able to be there. I was angry but I had to return to work. We had no outside help and the next 6 months were so rough that my productivity at work dropped off significantly. I was let go when my second was 6 months old. If I had PTO I would've used all of it and same with any paternity leave.
My company does 16 weeks of fully paid paternity. I'm taking 9 weeks at the beginning and breaking up the rest over the year to help with this or that.
I am a little concerned as to what my job will look like when I get back especially with the political climate. But at the end of the day that isn't what is most inorganic to me. My family is.
What you're missing is full brainwashing from the patriarchy, from the bootlicking capitalists.
Any partner who can but doesn't support their partner and newborn is an ass.
Any partner who can but doesn't take advantage of the leave benefit they earned is giving free money to their employer overlords like an absolute cuck.
Be revolutionary, put your family over your employer.
I took it, no way I'd miss spending quality time with our newborn and be there for my wife.
The employer has some heads up that it's coming too, so they can adjust the workload for something that occurs maybe once or twice in an employee's lifetime.
But then I live in Quebec, Canada and the father can take 5 weeks and the mother can take a year. (The father can take more, but they're swapped of the mother's year).
That group you overheard were reinforcing their excuses for ignoring the needs of their child along with the needs of the mom, and reinforcing beliefs that have overwhelming evidence of being false.
Kids needs dads in their lives, the earlier the better. Moms need dads to help out and support them.
You're not taking time off work to laze about, you're switching from one job to take on several related jobs for a while so that you,your child, and your woman have a brighter future than any amount of money could buy.
You're only missing out on taking the easy, shortsighted route. You're missing out on ignoring the future cost your family has to pay in or for you to get back to the familiar routine of work as soon as possible. You're missing out on staying with the known game of work to avoid taking on something new.
You're not missing out, they are.
I'm currently on paternity leave. Took 8 weeks broken into two chunks. 5 weeks when baby was born and 3 when my wife's 12 weeks ended. I couldn't imagine taking a few days and diving back into work. Both my wife and I work demanding jobs - I'm not sure I'd feel the same bond with my son if I didn't have this time... I also wouldn't have the same appreciation for how challenging it can be to be solo with the kiddo. It's pretty much a full time job to feed, change, and tend to the little guy. He's fighting to be a never napper and wakes up after 20-30 mins in his bassinet. Only gets longer naps if on my lap, which pretty much locks me down in whatever chair were in when he falls asleep (I know I can't do contact naps forever and need to get him used to falling asleep on his own).
All that to say... I think all dad's should get paternity leave. 5 weeks is fine. 8 is good. 12 is perfect.
Fully agree. I did 1 month paternity from the birth and will take another month some time later in the year. 100% worth taking the time off to bond with the baby and to be as supportive as possible by doing all the things around the house your partner who is breastfeeding doesnt have the time or energy to do. It's a once per child experience that they're this young and will develop fast so I'm happy that I could soak it up in full and be there for it to happen.
If I had the opportunity to go back and do it differently, I wouldn't.
Do it. Be with your offspring as much as you can. Anything else is barbaric corporate slave mentality.
In our country, both parents are allowed to spend 6 months (each) at home with the newborn.
Clearly you're missing some huge hairy balls, what type of man takes time off work to be with their family!?
(/s if it wasn't obvious)
People always bitch about fathers being too busy for their kids and shit but as soon as a father wants to be there they're all like "ew what the fuck is wrong with him"
The traditional view that the father needs to work is strong. In Denmark we have had the opportunity to share the maternity/paternity leave between parents for several years, but most often the mother would take the majority, with only 2 weeks being specific for the father.
This is due to the imbalance in pay, since the cut in pay would be larger for a man (generally), so men voluntarily gave the leave to their wives. This is obviously not the intention of the leave and also based on the flaw of unequal pay. Keep in mind that the wage difference is often explained as being caused by the mother taking more leave and thereby not advancing her career during the years when they have small children.
So, to fix his, the latest law make more weeks untransferable. The father now has 11 weeks that can not be transferred. Use it or lose it.
One would expect such a removal of flexibility to make people upset, because technically it will cost the families more potential income, but it hasn't.
It turns out that most men actually wanted the additional weeks of paternity leave. They just needed it to be normalized and/or the legal framework to demand it, so they don't have to have this discussion with their employers or wives. No man is ever asked why they're taking it now. Use it or lose it makes sense to everyone.
In addition we still have 26 (13+13) weeks that can be transferred however the parents want. Still very flexible.
