Ask Lemmy

I'll never have biological children of my own and I'll never get to use that benefit. From a strictly selfish standpoint, it stings a bit that pretty much all my heterosexual friends and coworkers, male and female, get a minimum of 12 - 36 weeks of paid time off that I'll never get.

Having said that, I'm genuinely happy that they get it, I think it's a shame that 12 weeks per child isn't a minimum standard for paternity & maternity leave. In the professional settings I've worked in that offer paternity leave, I've never experienced a coworker complaining or making fun of a man taking paternity leave, nor have I ever heard of a man NOT taking paternity leave when it's offered.

The places I've worked that offer it also usually offer flexible leave, so it's very common for new dads to take 4 - 6 weeks off at birth, and then work a reduced schedule for the remaining time until they're out of leave, after which they return full time. Even some of the moms are doing that as well, basically maximizing the amount of time that at least one parent is on leave and at home with the newborn.

But, outside of professional settings and particularly within conservative/Republican family and acquaintances, typically lower-to-middle class people, they act like paternity leave is ridiculous. My dad laughed out loud a while back when I mentioned I was taking over a new project because my coworker was about to go on paternity leave "What? Are you serious?" In my opinion, "toxic masculinity" aka stupid, ignorant, and useless concepts of overly rigid gender stereotypes is where this type of opinion is rooted. That and probably a good degree of jealousy.

The "work yourself to death" is a stupid boomer concept. It's a hugely negative aspect of traditional masculinity.

When people say weird stuff like this, I always question why. Why would you have a kid and then work so hard to be away from it? Why would you work for a company that will lay you off the moment it earns them a higher stock price to do so? (no modern company deserves your loyalty.) Why would you brag about suffering instead of relaxing?

I understand that we're all wired differently but those values literally don't make sense to me.

You are surrounded with workaholic, misogynists. My company gives full pay for 12 weeks for mothers and fathers. Several of my coworkers, mostly men, have used their leave in full (usually 9 weeks together and the other 3 broken up). Nobody ever looks down on people for taking leave.

Maybe they would take all of it if it was for full pay. Ya'll motherfuckers need a union.

Those people are jealous fucking idiots. 12 weeks is hardly anything. You get a fucking year for each parent in Norway

In Sweden, we have 16 months of parental that can be split between parents.

Nurses do house check-ups for the first few months and it's great for both parents to ask questions and get advice.

These guys who have the option but decline caring for thier family sound like shitty partners/dad's

I went through the same thing when I took my paternity leave. Other male coworkers bragged about how they went back to work the day after their kid was born.

It's a culture thing where our society is conditioned to be boot lickers for the ruling class. I responded to them at the time, "Congratulations on being a bad father, I'm going to take every day entitled to me"

Don't fall into their trap.

I had both my kids before this existed. I would have killed to have 12 weeks paid off to be with my new family. Getting exactly zero days off when you are a new dad SUCKS.

this is part of your compensation. you pay state taxes for it. And you deserve it. decades of corporate propaganda has made most people believe they don't deserve leave at all. ignore the haters and take your leave.

My thoughts:

We have it at my work (just called paid parental leave) and the guys seem to really consider it a benefit, they take it. Like you. Nobody has ever said anything but Congratulations. This is in Florida. You ARE supporting your family. I got 0 weeks paid when I gave birth, I'm really happy this is starting to change. Parenting is valuable work.

I think a lot of the pushback can be chalked up to jealousy as well. If you are living paycheck to paycheck, then you can’t afford to take a 15% pay cut. Then of course, you taking leave means that they will have added responsibilities until you get back as well.

But it’s your right, if you can afford it then you absolutely should take it if that’s what you want. You can’t get this time back

I did 6 months for each of my kids and it was great.

My company does 16 weeks of fully paid paternity. I'm taking 9 weeks at the beginning and breaking up the rest over the year to help with this or that.

I am a little concerned as to what my job will look like when I get back especially with the political climate. But at the end of the day that isn't what is most inorganic to me. My family is.

Your coworkers are fucking idiots.

Holy cow, that is a strange concept - I was coming back to add some of the hate you’re getting might be from affordability. Any paternity leave you can get in the US is usually vacation and unpaid. No one can afford much of that. That’s amazing that you still get an income to support taking care of your new child

I was so mad that I only had 1 week of PTO to take care of my wife and son after the rough birth. Thankfully some friends pulled us into their place to help take care of my wife while I had to work, otherwise she would have had to get grippy socks....

I fucking hate this country.

What you're missing is full brainwashing from the patriarchy, from the bootlicking capitalists.

Any partner who can but doesn't support their partner and newborn is an ass.

Any partner who can but doesn't take advantage of the leave benefit they earned is giving free money to their employer overlords like an absolute cuck.

Be revolutionary, put your family over your employer.

I took it, no way I'd miss spending quality time with our newborn and be there for my wife.

The employer has some heads up that it's coming too, so they can adjust the workload for something that occurs maybe once or twice in an employee's lifetime.

But then I live in Quebec, Canada and the father can take 5 weeks and the mother can take a year. (The father can take more, but they're swapped of the mother's year).

I'm currently on paternity leave. Took 8 weeks broken into two chunks. 5 weeks when baby was born and 3 when my wife's 12 weeks ended. I couldn't imagine taking a few days and diving back into work. Both my wife and I work demanding jobs - I'm not sure I'd feel the same bond with my son if I didn't have this time... I also wouldn't have the same appreciation for how challenging it can be to be solo with the kiddo. It's pretty much a full time job to feed, change, and tend to the little guy. He's fighting to be a never napper and wakes up after 20-30 mins in his bassinet. Only gets longer naps if on my lap, which pretty much locks me down in whatever chair were in when he falls asleep (I know I can't do contact naps forever and need to get him used to falling asleep on his own).

All that to say... I think all dad's should get paternity leave. 5 weeks is fine. 8 is good. 12 is perfect.

That group you overheard were reinforcing their excuses for ignoring the needs of their child along with the needs of the mom, and reinforcing beliefs that have overwhelming evidence of being false.

Kids needs dads in their lives, the earlier the better. Moms need dads to help out and support them.

You're not taking time off work to laze about, you're switching from one job to take on several related jobs for a while so that you,your child, and your woman have a brighter future than any amount of money could buy.

You're only missing out on taking the easy, shortsighted route. You're missing out on ignoring the future cost your family has to pay in or for you to get back to the familiar routine of work as soon as possible. You're missing out on staying with the known game of work to avoid taking on something new.

You're not missing out, they are.

Clearly you're missing some huge hairy balls, what type of man takes time off work to be with their family!?

(/s if it wasn't obvious)

Do it. Be with your offspring as much as you can. Anything else is barbaric corporate slave mentality.

In our country, both parents are allowed to spend 6 months (each) at home with the newborn.

People always bitch about fathers being too busy for their kids and shit but as soon as a father wants to be there they're all like "ew what the fuck is wrong with him"

The traditional view that the father needs to work is strong. In Denmark we have had the opportunity to share the maternity/paternity leave between parents for several years, but most often the mother would take the majority, with only 2 weeks being specific for the father.

This is due to the imbalance in pay, since the cut in pay would be larger for a man (generally), so men voluntarily gave the leave to their wives. This is obviously not the intention of the leave and also based on the flaw of unequal pay. Keep in mind that the wage difference is often explained as being caused by the mother taking more leave and thereby not advancing her career during the years when they have small children.

So, to fix his, the latest law make more weeks untransferable. The father now has 11 weeks that can not be transferred. Use it or lose it.

One would expect such a removal of flexibility to make people upset, because technically it will cost the families more potential income, but it hasn't.

It turns out that most men actually wanted the additional weeks of paternity leave. They just needed it to be normalized and/or the legal framework to demand it, so they don't have to have this discussion with their employers or wives. No man is ever asked why they're taking it now. Use it or lose it makes sense to everyone.

In addition we still have 26 (13+13) weeks that can be transferred however the parents want. Still very flexible.

All countries should give one year of paternity leave. I do believe though there needs to be a cool down period of a year and a half because then you would have people that just have five in a row taking advantage.

I took as much time as I was allowed to and wished I got more.

But I've also seen many others take far far less time than they could have and it never made any sense to me.

I think maternity and paternity leave should both be compulsory six months, to be taken as desired between pregnancy and 2nd birthday

I just got back from my paternity leave and wish it could have gone on longer. Raising a child in the first few months is like nothing else, and you don't get that time back.

Yeah, it's a no brainier for me too. The whole "men don't take leave!" sounds awfully convenient for businesses. But providing for your significant other should be more than just providing money.

I wish I had paternity leave - I feel like I missed out on so much plus it was unnecessarily difficult for my ex. Back then we only had one week. However my mother-in-law came for that week and my ex “wanted her Mom”. So I sat at home for a week doing what I could while my mother-in-law took care of my ex and kid, then week two I had to go back to work and mil had to go back home, and my ex was home alone with the baby, no support

FYI - a bit eye opening on who some feminists actually are (in a good way) - a feminist group at work used me as a poster child to demand more paternity leave.

Honestly it took me years to lose the American work mindset. It was destroying my brain.

Take the leave and feel no shame. Others are reacting because you taking leave challenges their understanding of work. Something that is exceedingly rare in the US.

Paternity leave is awesome, did so myself (male). Even though it was 2010 and in Europe a lot of paperwork came up because it was not my wife...

I had 6 weeks as that was what my employer allowed. I didn't take it all at once, 4 weeks and 2 weeks later. I found that she needed help more during teething and sleep regression so it might be good to split it up if you can, also helps you keep on top of work.

But would say it's important to ask what she feels she needs. I wouldn't worry about your employer. Also, with the lack of sleep during those first few weeks, I can't imagine anyone is productive at work.

We took the first 10 months together and then I took an additional 8 months while she got back to work.

Literally zero regret. There's so many small moments you'll miss not being around. No amount of money can bring that back. Now that I'm working full time, it fucking hurts just seeing the kid basically just for dinner and bedtime during the week.

Swede here. Taking care of your family means being an active parent and a sharing partner.

I took 18 months paternity leave with our firstborn so my partner could finish their degree.

I'm pretty sure there is enough research that supports the idea of paternity leave increasing parental involvement and connection with your child and leading to more gender equality/more balanced responsibilities in families.

My husband and I went the very conservative route with him being off for 2 months and me being off for 3 years (German classic). Let me tell you I would have not survived the newborn stage, having no help from outside, without him. At the same time, for him it was so hard - although I am not sure that work was easier, he after all still came home to a little baby. Parental leave doesn't mean you get to chill, it means you have no excuse for not doing half of the night shift, half of everything except breast feeding. When he went back to work, he would do the night shifts on the weekends, and I would do all the night shifts on workdays.

Your co-workers are morons. They miss out on helping their baby mamas, connecting with their kids, and going through a unique experience. Even if your pay was much lower, it's worth it. It's hard and stressful and awful and it is the best thing you'll ever do.