Most democratic countries have a full 12 months leave or more for whichever parent ( or shared between both.) Maybe this lack of early bonding and co-regulation between family members explains US as it is today.
this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2025
330 points (98.8% liked)
Ask Lemmy
29888 readers
3350 users here now
A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions
Rules: (interactive)
1) Be nice and; have fun
Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them
2) All posts must end with a '?'
This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?
3) No spam
Please do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.
4) NSFW is okay, within reason
Just remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com.
NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].
5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions.
If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.
6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !askusa@discuss.online
Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.
Partnered Communities:
Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
12 weeks paternity leave at 85% salary? Damn, that's sweet, even by many EU standards.
I wouldn't think twice about taking it.
Don't listen to those morons. Paternity leave is a legit great way to stay with your wife and children when they need it the most.
I got it. I think it was 3 weeks. Unfortunately it was unpaid. I had to take on extra work before and after to make up for the loss in income. It was all we were allowed.
I would do it again. Those 3 weeks at home are irreplaceable. Should it be paid? Should it be longer? Abso-fucking-lutely. But paternity leave? Take it if you can get it.
I was interviewing with my current company while my wife was pregnant and I didn't disclose it to them bc I didn't want it to impact my hireability. My wife was due about a month into my tenure after I got hired. I told my boss after I was hired, and only took maybe a week off. The only reason I took such a short amount of time was I didn't want my boss to think poorly of me so soon into the job and make a good 1st impression. I was sleep deprived the whole time and my performance was definitely impacted.
When my 2nd was born, you best believe I took the full 12 weeks, and every day was worth it. That bonding time is absolutely irreplaceable, and I wish I had it the first go 'round. You only get 1 chance at it. Fuck your coworkers, they're probably shitty parents.
Both parents should be entitled to take 12 months leave as a minimum, and their employer should be required to pay their salary and protect their position during that time.
I believe in leave for having a child but how do you picture this working unless it is government funded? Lad and lass get out of college at 22. Enter their first job. Are there for 6 months to a year, and then take a year off, go back to work for 6-12 months, off for a year. Now they are 25-26 years old, 2 kids and have at most 2 years of experience in their field. Have only worked for the company for most 2 years and had 2 years off. In which then many would leave that job as it no longer fits around their schedules assuming the business didn't do layoffs and such.
I know a lot of people think they'll wait till their older to have kids but a lot of that is about time and financial security. If I knew my job was secure when I was coming out of college I would have married my then fiancee and would have reproduced 2-3 times at that age. Putting 60,000 young humans in a small area made for a lot of active fit horny people. I know a lot of Universities are smaller, but either way, I can't see any small businesses surviving it. They'd all have to choose to hire 35+ year old workers to lower their odds of paying out the leave. (Unless like mentioned previously it's all covered by the state)
I mean, I'm no economist so I cant exactly speak on the how, but the government should be involved in the funding for this, passing the financial burden onto parents would just cause either those couples to not have kids, or not give those new born kids the adequate attention they need leading to further problems in their life.
Oh I agree it would help with birth rates. And mental health of the population. But healthy isn't what we do around here. I watched a woman with 1 arm being told off last night at work that she wasn't likely to be able to keep her performance numbers up and should consider quitting instead of trying to ask her if she would find a better fit somewhere else that would work better for her situation. They are hiring like crazy so just about every position is open. The people watch you go through a metal detector on the way in and tell you to take your keys out and try again. You can do that all day with 1 arm. (Strange that we have that, but huge company and many expensive parts I assume they are worried people might be walking out with. Or maybe it's for cameras coming in... Idk. Either way, they are hiring for positions that don't require you to belittle someone but rather find a better use, it's not like they could have gotten through interviews and paperwork without disclosing they had a disability. (Not to mention companies get tax write offs for having employees with disabilities last I checked)
-sorry for the rant, new contract one week down and learning what kind of company it is
In a lot of developed countries the employer can claim back money from the government when a employee takes maternity leave or sick leave.
That way companies don't really have a reason to discriminate based on if you might get pregnant etc.
I heard that early childhood (first weeks, months, maybe years) are vital for development of emotional intelligence. Neglect could lead to life-long struggles. So I'm happy to hear you favor the idea to stay and care. Good for you, you both, and all of us.
Honestly, fuck those coworkers. What I will tell you is this: They're only newborns for so long, and after that they're only babies for so long. Those are some of the most precious moments in life. Giving that up to wage slave for a company that at the end of the day doesn't give a shit about you? When given the opportunity to experience something that will probably only happen once or twice in your lifetime? You should 100 percent go for it. The other option is looking back on how you missed out on something you will never get back. I missed out on one kids baby phase pulling 60 hour weeks. Was lucky enough to be around for my second and was able to take paternity leave. Best decision I was given, and hate myself for missing out on my first kid.
You are surrounded with workaholic, misogynists. My company gives full pay for 12 weeks for mothers and fathers. Several of my coworkers, mostly men, have used their leave in full (usually 9 weeks together and the other 3 broken up). Nobody ever looks down on people for taking leave.
Maybe they would take all of it if it was for full pay. Ya'll motherfuckers need a union.
The "work yourself to death" is a stupid boomer concept. It's a hugely negative aspect of traditional masculinity.
When people say weird stuff like this, I always question why. Why would you have a kid and then work so hard to be away from it? Why would you work for a company that will lay you off the moment it earns them a higher stock price to do so? (no modern company deserves your loyalty.) Why would you brag about suffering instead of relaxing?
I understand that we're all wired differently but those values literally don't make sense to me.
The "work yourself to death" is a stupid boomer concept. It's a hugely negative aspect of traditional masculinity.
At least for boomers, loyalty was often rewarded with promotions, bonuses, and generous pensions. But these days companies will work you to death and then fire you for a 0.0001% boost to their quarterly profits. They'll fire 10,000 people just so the billionaire shareholders can earn 1% more.
Yup. Loyalty is a two way street. I know pretty successful companies whose former employees still speak highly of, precisely because the company did the whole "you work hard and we treat you well" thing. The moment that that trust is lost, your employees will treat you in kind. Except for some idiots falling for the propaganda of course.
Spending the first 2 month of my child's life with them was one of the best things in my life.
almost bragging how little time they took after their kids were born
I had a coworker bragging about lying to his wife that he couldn't take time off. This is fucked up on so many levels: why even have a kid? Why do you lie to your wife? Why are you telling people you barey know (I had been there for like two weeks) that you lie to your wife? WTF?
I feel like I’m missing something.
Maybe they're insecure? They don't know what to do with the new kid, and instead of figuring it out together with their partner they run back to the things they know and hide behind a fake martyrdom. I wonder how many of them will in a few months or years say that women are "naturals" when it comes to taking care of kids.
Congrats on the kid and on being an actual dad!
Why marry her if you don't like her that much? Like, seriously? I know there is the meme of "burnt-out husband spending weekends working overtime so he can avoid his wife", but those are usually failing relationships.
Paternity leave saved my life when I was a young father with an ill wife. Take as much time as you can.
Also, side note, the year I took off of work to care for them when my sons were small (3 and 5) I look back on as one of the best decisions I ever made. Despite the fact we were flirting with homelessness, the bonding and memories made a huge impact on them, and now that they're adults, we have an amazing relationship that far surpasses the distant bond I have with my own father.
Today I witnessed a group of coworkers almost bragging how little time they took after their kids were born. I've heard stuff like "Most men are hard working and want to support their families so they don't take leave".
Toxic masculinity.
This is textbook toxic masculinity.
A lot of people misuse the term, but this is an excellent example. The men involved lose out on something amazing due to it being 'unmanly'.
this is part of your compensation. you pay state taxes for it. And you deserve it. decades of corporate propaganda has made most people believe they don't deserve leave at all. ignore the haters and take your leave.
You deserve this as much as you deserve the road you are driving on, or the tax return you get. You wouldn't skip the tax return, right? So treat it like a nice little informal tax return.
Here in Ireland I got a meagre 2 weeks (but took an additional 2 weeks unpaid!)
I went through the same thing when I took my paternity leave. Other male coworkers bragged about how they went back to work the day after their kid was born.
It's a culture thing where our society is conditioned to be boot lickers for the ruling class. I responded to them at the time, "Congratulations on being a bad father, I'm going to take every day entitled to me"
Don't fall into their trap.
Yup. Had old union buddies I was talking to after my first, and I brought up that he had a diaper blowout earlier, and they were like "I've never changed a diaper in my life!"
Just told them " damn, I'd be too embarrassed to admit I were that bad of a father in public..."
I find it hilarious when people brag about things they think are cool but it just makes them look like dumbasses.
"Lol I can drink 24 beers in one sitting"
"I never call in sick, I can be hacking up a lung and I'm still there at the office"
On and on...
In my work environment (in the US), people have roughly this much paternity leave, and it is taken for granted that they will take it because this is viewed as important even if their absence during this time inconveniences the rest of us. They often split it up, though, instead of taking it in a single contiguous chunk.
Central Europe here, i have never seen someone question taking paternity leave. Sure, especially the managers might complain behind their backs about workload or scheduling, but nobody questioned the decision.
I’m a dad of two, and in my country (Norway) it’s mostly common to divide the leave. With my first, I had 9 months of paternity leave, 6 months with my youngest. The two best periods of my life!
Your coworkers are fucking idiots.
I too recognize that this person's coworkers are fucking idiots.
I three recognize that this person's coworkers are fucking idiots.
I'll never have biological children of my own and I'll never get to use that benefit. From a strictly selfish standpoint, it stings a bit that pretty much all my heterosexual friends and coworkers, male and female, get a minimum of 12 - 36 weeks of paid time off that I'll never get.
Having said that, I'm genuinely happy that they get it, I think it's a shame that 12 weeks per child isn't a minimum standard for paternity & maternity leave. In the professional settings I've worked in that offer paternity leave, I've never experienced a coworker complaining or making fun of a man taking paternity leave, nor have I ever heard of a man NOT taking paternity leave when it's offered.
The places I've worked that offer it also usually offer flexible leave, so it's very common for new dads to take 4 - 6 weeks off at birth, and then work a reduced schedule for the remaining time until they're out of leave, after which they return full time. Even some of the moms are doing that as well, basically maximizing the amount of time that at least one parent is on leave and at home with the newborn.
But, outside of professional settings and particularly within conservative/Republican family and acquaintances, typically lower-to-middle class people, they act like paternity leave is ridiculous. My dad laughed out loud a while back when I mentioned I was taking over a new project because my coworker was about to go on paternity leave "What? Are you serious?" In my opinion, "toxic masculinity" aka stupid, ignorant, and useless concepts of overly rigid gender stereotypes is where this type of opinion is rooted. That and probably a good degree of jealousy.
As a straight man who absolutely doesn't want kids, I understand you. But raising a kid is a fuckton of work, and parents deserve a chance to do it right, so I'm not jealous. After all, my decision to not have children will probably save me loads of money. A tax cut here and there is just fair, if you ask me.
You should start “smoking”. Protected breaks every set timeframe. Your work doesn’t matter, you need to “chase the dragon” as it’s culturally protected. Why take a few months all at once for a kid when you can take 15 min over a longer time and rack up much more time overall?
Combine that with taking a dump at work and suddenly hours are devoted away from the task… maternity leave is just their version of work / life balance.
Those people are jealous fucking idiots. 12 weeks is hardly anything. You get a fucking year for each parent in Norway
I think a lot of the pushback can be chalked up to jealousy as well. If you are living paycheck to paycheck, then you can’t afford to take a 15% pay cut. Then of course, you taking leave means that they will have added responsibilities until you get back as well.
But it’s your right, if you can afford it then you absolutely should take it if that’s what you want. You can’t get this time back
I did 6 months for each of my kids and it was great.
Like mat leave I don’t really think about it, to me it’s just assumed
What you're missing is full brainwashing from the patriarchy, from the bootlicking capitalists.
Any partner who can but doesn't support their partner and newborn is an ass.
Any partner who can but doesn't take advantage of the leave benefit they earned is giving free money to their employer overlords like an absolute cuck.
Be revolutionary, put your family over your employer.
I was so mad that I only had 1 week of PTO to take care of my wife and son after the rough birth. Thankfully some friends pulled us into their place to help take care of my wife while I had to work, otherwise she would have had to get grippy socks....
I fucking hate this country.
load more comments
(3 replies)
view more: next ›