this post was submitted on 14 Jan 2025
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Warning, this story is really horrific and will be heartbreaking for any fans of his, but Neil Gaiman is a sadistic [not in the BDSM sense] sexual predator with a predilection for very young women.

Paywall bypass: https://archive.is/dfXCj

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[–] stoly@lemmy.world 53 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

We have to remember that Bill Cosby was praised for decades because he genuinely made the world a better place while being an utter sack of shit.

[–] CeruleanRuin@lemmings.world 20 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I've never heard it articulated quite like this before, but you phrase it well.

Men like this absolutely deserve to be condemned and shunned for what they have done, but that doesn't also erase the good that they did before -- nor does it preclude them from ever doing good again.

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 16 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

At the same time, any good they do does not erase or counterbalance the harm. Jimmy Savile, the UK's worst celebrity paedophile who abused hundreds of children, conspicuously did a lot for charities throughout his career. He said that he knew God would look at all the good he had done and it would make up for the bad things. There was a calculus in which he only had to do more good each time he did bad, and it would cancel it out. It's a twisted view. Harm is harm and is not changed by any independent "good" act a person does. But apparent goodness can change its significance in the light of the harm that accompanies it.

Savile's apparent selfless good acts were actually a calculated attempt to win license to do harm, and a psychological coping mechanism to allow him to believe in his own basic goodness before God. Plus the reputation for selfless goodness served as a smokescreen to prevent people seeing clearly what was really going on, and to win the support and protection of powerful people. Seen this way, while the charitable works may have had some helpful effects, these were not genuinely good actions but in large part self-serving and an integral part of the dynamics of this man's abuse.

I think the same applies to men like Cosby and Gaiman: the overt charity or the overt feminism changes its meaning when you see how it serves them psychologically and reputationally, amd how it may be a functional part of the whole abusive operation.

Matt Bernstein in a recent video (it's long) discusses men who act as outspoken self-avowed feminists but then abuse their power to treat women terribly. The feminism may be genuine, but it may also be their smokescreen, or a mix of each, and when a man is very loud about being a feminist you have to look carefully to see which is the case. Some are genuine, but you have to ask. Maybe Gaiman was doing the feminist smokescreen, or maybe he's just so messed up that these two sides of his life - the feminism and the abuse - just didn't really encounter each other.

[–] Fredselfish@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago

This explains so much. Read a book written by his very young wife. Now I get it and how fucked up he is.

[–] Hasherm0n@lemmy.world 42 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

When the initial allegations came out I was shocked. A week later I was having breakfast with a good friend of mine and his wife. The wife worked in the comic book industry and we'd talked about Gaiman before. I brought up the allegations and she told me that no one who rubbed elbowed with his circle were shocked. Apparently he already had something of a reputation.

[–] ddash@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

This is what gets me every time. Once this goes public everyone starts saying, ah yeah, no wonder, they had a reputation already, I knew they were sketchy and so on. So where the fuck where you (not you Hasherm0n, the people bringing this up) all this time? This could have ended so much earlier if people would speak up and make it more public.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 11 points 3 weeks ago

Speaking out against the rich and powerful often does not work out well for the person who does it. They would be fighting a very rich and very successful man with a legion of extremely devoted fans. Women who have been direct victims of powerful men have spoken out about it and been destroyed for it (see Anita Hill).

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 34 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

No one should ever be put on a pedestal. We all have our demons. Though many of them are semi innocent or only hurt ourselves. It still sad to hear another celebrity abused their celebrity.

[–] Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I don't know about you but none of my demons involve sexual assault.

[–] biofaust@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago

But that doesn't take away the fact that someone's demons could be of this kind. It's a built-in risk in every human.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago

I do not disagree with you, but I still think it's heartbreaking when it turns out that a man who is lauded for his feminism turns out to be a horrific rapist, sadist and predator.

[–] EpicMuch@sh.itjust.works 33 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (5 children)

I have so many of this man's books on my shelves, a few of them signed. I don't know what to do with them. I don't want to throw them away (yet), because the stories are wonderful and I'm still attached to those characters and worlds. but. I don't to see his name anymore. on anything. I've turned them backwards, spine inward and placed others in the gap between other books and the back of the shelf. what a tragic loss caused by a Jekyll\Hyde monster.

Good Omens is one of my most favorite and re-read books and I don't know how many decades it'll take before I touch it again.

[–] prodigalsorcerer@lemmy.ca 32 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

It can be hard to separate art from artist, but just keep in mind that you've already paid for those books. He isn't getting more money from you just rereading them, and nothing changes if you continue to enjoy the books.

Also he doesn't get paid if you pirate them. So feel free to pirate them.

[–] slurp@programming.dev 30 points 3 weeks ago

At least with Good Omens you can focus on Terry. This is grim.

[–] CeruleanRuin@lemmings.world 30 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The stories live on their own. They left his mind and are no longer his. They live in your mind now and are yours now.

If it makes you feel better about them being there, tear out or paint over his name on them. And continue enjoying stories that are good.

I believe in death of the author. People throughout history were all sorts of awful, but that doesn't mean they didn't have some good thoughts too. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Part of the problem in Gaiman's case is that he absolutely does not shy away from sexual violence in his stories. The perpetrator usually gets punished, often ironically, but how can you read about one of his villainous rapist characters and not think about how he's got experience with what that character is doing?

That's not a problem with stuff like Good Omens, which is more family fare, or even the stuff he does specifically for kids. It's a huge problem for stuff like Sandman and American Gods.

[–] TheMachineStops@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author

H. P. Lovecraft was very racist and you can even see his racism in his books, and people still read his books. You need to disconnect the author with the books, although Lovecraft was racist and not a monster like this guy. I even heard he tried to change before he died.

[–] Jamablaya@lemmy.today 2 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah he was racist, but also a New England resident in like 1910 who married a Jewish woman.

[–] geography082@lemm.ee 2 points 3 weeks ago

Time to buy mangas

[–] Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world 28 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

Jesus fucking Christ.

I have not read anything from Gaiman, but I can see that lots of People really liked his books and the Person he showed the world.

So I just want to say, I'm really sorry for all of you. Even though Gaiman can rot in Hell, I feel sad for people who just got their favorite Books and stories poisoned.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 11 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

This is way worse than the J.K. Rowling turned TERF bit. These are actual crimes committed against women.

I legit really enjoyed many of his works, Good Omens, written with Terry Pratchett, is an all time classic, and I used to be proud of the fact that I actually met the man, as did one of my oldest friends as well as my brother in law.

Now it's all like "What the fuck?"

[–] Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

That must be creepy³ :0

[–] Badeendje@lemmy.world 10 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Why though? He is a sack of shit and can rot in hell for all I care.. his art can still be enjoyed. Having him take that way means he has even more power.

I would suggest obtaining it in ways that do not give him new money... Like buying books second hand.

[–] Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world 13 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

If you can do that more Power to you!

But I can understand that some People now look with diffrent eyes on his work or simply can't make that cut between Author and his work.

[–] Badeendje@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah I can imagine for some people his work is tainted...

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

In this specific case, it's really difficult because, as the article talks about in the beginning, his stories were often viewed as being feminist (and progressive in other ways), but when you re-read them, you can start getting a sense of the monster that was hiding.

[–] bawdy@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 weeks ago

I've been a fan of his for a very long time - decades. I enjoyed the dark part of the dark humour and the commentaey on humanity.

He has an excellent book called the sleeper and the spindle. It is a beautifully crafted and illustrated book clearly targeted at young women. It feels like art, and I genuinely celebrate it for what it is, a feminist retelling of Cinderella, where the celebrated main character is....how do I put it - both good, and effective. Not empowered, or brave, or glossy, but competent and certain. It is a version of feminism I see in those pragmatic, excellent women who do valuable, notable and productive things.

I don't see any echoes of a monster any moreso than any fantasy writer who holds up a chipped and scratched mirror to the human condition. And that is the profoundly sad thing here. I believe you can be two things at once and that as a story, without his name attached to it, sleeper and the spindle should be something young people can read and enjoy and make them think a bit differently.

This isn't a shoulder shrug and wave off of his actions. I can't forgive him his cruel treatment of vulnerable people who cared for him, trusted him and wanted to please him. It is abhorrent.

What I'm trying to say is mud and gold come from the same hole.

[–] Jamablaya@lemmy.today 3 points 3 weeks ago

You really should. Sandman and American Gods are incredible, and he also occasionally dipped into trashy comic fare, also enjoyable. He's one trait I guess comes from the comics he used to do, his best stories are all with other people's characters. I don't think he's ever used a original character, they're all like mythological tropes. Even supposedly original protagonists turn out to be Balder or some shit.

[–] MojoMcJojo@lemmy.world 22 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I have no evidence, but I believe Orson Scott Card has a thing for little boys. I devoured his books when I was a tween, but began to feel uneasy over time. There was a reoccurring theme of young boys being put in graphic situations that just, I don't know, but I've never been able to shake that feeling. Song Master pushed me over the edge. A 'beautiful young boy' being castrated so he doesn't go through puberty was when I stopped reading. My Spidey sense had never stopped going off about him since then.

Aaaand I just googled. I'm not the only one who picked up on that. Ew

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 18 points 3 weeks ago

Card is also a giant piece of shit in other ways, which is unfortunate because he is a good writer and his essays on the methodology of writing are excellent.

https://www.wired.com/2013/10/enders-game/

[–] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 17 points 3 weeks ago
[–] vivavideri@lemmy.world 12 points 3 weeks ago

God, barf.

I was one of those sad goth kids clinging to the dresden dolls through my turbulent adolescence. After palmer met this nutsack her whole vibe changed. I mourned the loss of an era and ultimately left it all behind. I can't even begin to fathom what kind of.. Mind-shattering nightmare that would be, someone you connected with on that level, being the intersection in your life between "the before times" and one of the most traumatic things that can happen to someone. Fuck.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago

I met him very briefly in 1995, same San Diego comic con trip when I met Stan Lee, James Robinson, Wade Von Grawbadger, Will Eisner, and Shannon Wheeler.

I didn't get the creepy vibe from him then, but then again it would have been 25 years before these allegations, at a convention, and I'm not a vulnerable woman.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 5 points 3 weeks ago

This is certainly going to have an effect on Tumblr.

[–] Ioughttamow@fedia.io 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Well, guess I’ll never be getting around to finishing ocean at the end of the lane now, just sickening. And I like his narration so much too, and now it’s just all ruined.

Disgusting

[–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago

Great book no reason not to enjoy it just because he's a pos

[–] lurklurk@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

There's a lot of good books written by awful people. I guess Gaiman might be one of those awful people