this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2024
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[–] leds@feddit.dk 19 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

AI seems perfect for renewables load balancing. Got extra power to burn because it is windy at night? Train your models

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[–] Mandy@sh.itjust.works 50 points 1 day ago

Cyberpunk dystopias weren't supposed to be guidelines dammit

[–] ownsauce@lemmy.world 59 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

The article mentions Kairos Power but doesn't mention that their reactors in development are molten-salt cooled. While they'll still use Uranium, its a great step in the right direction for safer nuclear power.

If development continues on this path with thorium molten-salt fueled and cooled reactors, we could see safe and commercially viable nuclear (thorium) energy within our lifetimes.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-06/china-building-thorium-nuclear-power-station-gobi/104304468

To my layman's knowledge, using thorium molten-salt instead of uranium means the reactor can be designed in a way where it can't melt down like Chernobyl or Fukushima.

Edit: The other implication of not using uranium is that the leftover material is harder to make in to bombs, so the technology around molten-salt thorium reactors could be spread to current non-nuclear states to meet their energy needs and reduce reliance on coal plants around the planet.

[–] index@sh.itjust.works -4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If development continues on this path

If we continue down the path of wasting energy and polluting to produce useless shit humanity is screwed.

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[–] TimLovesTech@badatbeing.social 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Growing from a broad research effort at U.S. universities and national laboratories, Kairos Power was founded to accelerate the development of an innovative nuclear technology ...

Kairos Power is focused on reducing technical risk through a novel approach to test iteration often lacking in the nuclear space. Our schedule is driven by the goal of a U.S. demonstration plant before 2030 and a rapid deployment thereafter. The challenge is great, but so too is the opportunity.

So basically academics finding people to fund a large scale lab experiment, they want to get working by 2030. It sounds like they sold Google on an idea (for funding) and now have to move their idea from the lab to the real world. It does sound safer than water cooled plants of old at least.

[–] pandapoo@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

This is good news, relatively speaking.

SMR technology is one of the most promising pieces of technological development in the nuclear power space.

Standardized factory production and completely sealed, so refueling is only at the factory, never on-site. Their also, small, but scalable depending on the needs of each site.

I'm not sure of the design this company is using, but I'm assuming they're leveraging a fail safe reactor, as in, it requires properly running systems to generate fission, but if those systems fail, the fission process stops. There are no secondary systems that have to kick in, it's a simple as either it's running properly, or it can't run it all.

As opposed to systems like Chernobyl, or 3 Mile Island, that required separate active safety systems to guard against catastrophic failures. But if those failed, they're backups failed, etc., well, meltdown.

[–] xnx@slrpnk.net 0 points 1 day ago (3 children)

So um. What happens when the white supremacists attacking FEMA and electrical grids starts attacking these nuclear reactors?

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[–] MyOpinion@lemm.ee -1 points 1 day ago

Thank goodness we can now get a little nuclear waste with our cat pics.

[–] lulztard@reddthat.com 178 points 1 day ago (4 children)
[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 89 points 1 day ago (6 children)

We're living in a cyberpunk nightmare

[–] ChocoboRocket@lemmy.world 31 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

Not yet we're not!

Still plenty of nature to kill before humanity cannot survive in any capacity without corpo supply chains.

If you're breathing free air, drinking real water, and actual food can grow out of the ground we're comparably in cyber paradise given how much worse AI spycraft and corporate ownership will worsen everything exponentially for the non-connected over the next decades

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[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 0 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Could NOT get the nuclear power plant in Georgia off the ground for how long?

Did it ever get finished?

But when corporate wants it just fucking happens 🤡

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[–] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 20 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Businesses generating their own power is not anything new. The big auto manufacturers used to do it back in the day, and if you scale down the concept, every windmill (the grain grinding kind) and waterwheel built and operated for profit is the same thing. I'm just happy that Google is seemingly having their own built, instead of getting taxpayers to build it for them.

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[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 125 points 1 day ago (20 children)

Crazy how quickly we've gone from "Nuclear is a dead technology, it can't work and its simply too expensive to build more of. Y'all have to use fossil fuels instead" to "We're building nuclear plants as quickly as our contractors can draft them, but only for doing experiments in high end algorithmic brute-forcing".

Would be nice if some of that dirt-cheap, low-emission, industrial capacity electricity was available for the rest of us.

[–] frezik@midwest.social 3 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (2 children)

One of the things with AI is that it's a largely constant load factor. Nuclear is really good for that.

However, I highly doubt any of these new nuclear plants are finished before the AI bubble bursts. SMRs haven't even been proven in practice yet, and this is the first good news they've had in a while. Restarting Three Mile Island isn't expected to work before 2028. The hype bubble could easily burst in the next year, and even if it doesn't, keeping it going to 2028 is highly unlikely.

So we'll probably have some new nuclear around that isn't going into AI, because those datacenters will be dead when the hype passes. Might as well use them, I guess.

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

You don't think there's any chance that AI as it exists today might be just the start of a huge industry?

[–] frezik@midwest.social 3 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

As it exists now, no. The models are reaching their limit, and they aren't good enough. They can't absorb any more information than they have, and more training iterations aren't making them better. They'll do some useful things; a recent find of the longest black hole jet ever found was done in part from AI classification of astronomy data. It's going to get implemented into existing tools and that's about it. It won't be enough to justify the money that's already been dumped in.

Historically, the field has been very bursty. Lots of money gets dumped into it, it makes some big improvements, and then hits a wall. Funding dries up because it's not meeting goals anymore, and the whole thing goes into slumber for a decade or two. A new breakthrough eventually comes, and then money gets dumped in again. We've about maxed out what the last breakthrough can give us. I expect we'll need at least one more cycle of this before AGI works out.

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[–] Zementid@feddit.nl 58 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Fun Times! Because everyone pays for the waste and when something goes wrong. Privatizing Profits while Socializing Losses. The core motor of capitalism.

[–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 28 points 1 day ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (17 children)

The cleanup for fossil fuels is an order of magnitude more expensive, and an order of magnitude more difficult. It also impacts so many things that its true cost is impossible to calculate.

I'm aware of the issues with nuclear, but for a lot of places it's the only low/zero emission tech we can do until we have a serious improvement in batteries.

Very few countries can have a large stable base load of renewable energy. Not every country has the geography for dams (which have their own massive ecological and environmental impacts) or geothermal energy.

Seriously, we need to cut emissions now. So what's the option that anti-nuclear people want? Continue to use fossil fuels and hope battery tech gets good enough, then expand renewables? That will take decades. Probably 30+ years at the minimum.

[–] Zementid@feddit.nl 14 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

Nuclear should only be done by the state. Any commercial company doing nuclear HAS TO CARE FOR THE WASTE. It has to be in the calculation, but no on ecan guarantee 10000 years of anything. Same with fossils... execute the fossil fuel industry. They destroyed so much, they don't deserve to earn a single cent.

That funky startup is producing waste. Imagine a startup selling Asbestos as the new hot shit in 2024.

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[–] BaroqueInMind@lemmy.one 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (6 children)

It's almost like the brand spanking new tech to make small nuclear reactors are extremely cost prohibitive and risky, and to lower the cost someone needs to spend money to increase supply.

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[–] RedFrank24@lemmy.world 68 points 1 day ago (4 children)

At last, we'll be seeing nuclear reactors being created using Agile! Fail early, fail often, hopefully don't kill everyone!

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[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 47 points 16 hours ago (3 children)

For some reason this doesn't feel like good news.

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[–] sweetpotato@lemmy.ml 43 points 1 day ago (7 children)

So not replacing current energy, but adding onto it. Just like how we didn't replace fossil fuels with the solar and wind unprecedented advancements the last 30 years but only added more energy consumption on top of that...cool

[–] EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone 29 points 1 day ago (2 children)

The other side of the coin is that AI currently uses more power than is produced by all renewables across the globe annually. So at least they'll be offsetting that, which would be a net positive.

And it seems like Google's funding will help advance safer and more modern nuclear plant designs, which is another win that could lead to replacing coal plants in many countries with small scale reactors that don't run on uranium.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 day ago (2 children)

And it seems like Google's funding will help advance safer and more modern nuclear plant designs

Hopefully.

But the cynic in me is always concerned when shareholder owned companies are operating something that has the potential to go very wrong very quickly if/when they cut too many corners in the pursuit of that extra 0.5% of profit.

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[–] tronx4002@lemmy.world 40 points 1 day ago (6 children)

I am suprised to see all the negativity. I for one think this is awesome and would love to see SMRs become more mainstream.

[–] Zink@programming.dev 4 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

How wonderful would it be if the ultimate effect of the AI fad was to use the tech industry’s billions to install tons of carbon free power generation?

[–] prenatal_confusion@feddit.org 1 points 11 hours ago (8 children)

Are there no emissions during mining and at eol digging and maintaining a storage?

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[–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 1 points 10 hours ago

Why? It just sounds nice bouncing around your head for a few seconds?

[–] towerful@programming.dev 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

I agree, and it is possibly the only good thing to come out of AI.
Like people asking "why do we need to go to the moon?!".

Fly-by-wire (ie pilot controls decoupled from physical actuators), so modern air travel.

Integrated circuits (IE multiple transistors - and other components - in the same silicon package). Basically miniaturisation and reduction in power consumption of computers.

GPS. The Apollo missions lead to the rocket tech/science for geosynchronous orbits require for GPS.


This time it is commercial.
I'd rather the power requirements were covered by non-carbon sources. However it proves the tech for future use.

For a similar example, I have a strong dislike of Elon Musk. He has ruined the potential of Twitter and Tesla, but SpaceX has had some impressive accomplishments.

Google are a shitty company. I wish the nuclear power went towards shutting down carbon power.
But SOMEONE has to take the risk. I wish that someone was a government. But it's Google. So.... Kind of a win?

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