I have $15.
Not just that I can spend. Not "until sometime in the future." Just $15.
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I have $15.
Not just that I can spend. Not "until sometime in the future." Just $15.
I am one broken leg away from being homeless and losing everything, and it's been like that my entire working life. I've never been able to make enough to actually save. Currently I have -100 in the bank and some debt I'm trying to pay off on top of that. My rent is literally half my income.
I’m doing well at the moment. The problem is that no matter how well I do, eventually something destroys my savings and eventually there’s a layoff at my company.
Even if I’m doing well at the moment, I’m still a couple paychecks from not doing well, and am no where near on track to eventually be able to retire
I have five digits of savings for the first time since my kids were born, but I also have college expenses for them, and at least that much in deferred house maintenance
I credit Apple, of all things. I always chose credit cards to minimize interest and fees, so this is the first time I’ve had one with significant cash back. Now I pay essentially everything with Apple credit card, pay off at the end of the month, get a surprising amount of cash back, directly into the high yield savings account. While of course my job is the reason I’m doing well, I credit this for turning things around to actually let me put money aside, to boost my savings
I'm digging myself out of a $13k credit card debt hole. I burned through my savings when a job that I had ended on my unexpectedly, and because it was contract work I wouldn't qualify for benefits. They kept me around as a sub, promising me a full time position if I just stuck around long enough and I was foolish enough to believe them.
I'm self employed now and making do with the best I can, but I'm planning on ending my dream as a musician/ teacher and moving home. I don't know who would want my skills, but I know they are specialized and strong. I just gotta see what kind of work would value them.
every time I read one of those statistics, I feel the same way.
I'm doing very well relative to that statistic.
I live fairly simply, but I don't consider myself particularly frugal.
I like traveling, learning, eating, watching and reading stuff, and making things, which are all pretty cheap interests.
If I were to credit anything with my financial success, it would be a practiced awareness of financial opportunity and persistently learning about and attempting every viable opportunity I'm interested in to gain a practical knowledge of cost-benefit streams.
I've tried many ways to make money and work less, and some of them worked out.
I'm traveling this year, so I save most of my income, and with the IRS' FEIE I don't pay income tax(up to 120k).
I have a few investments and some ten thousands accruing interest.
i don't have immediate plans, but I want to buy some land at some point, basically so I have more area to build stuff and make stuff, sign up for cryonics and get a new electric bike or the Aptera if it every goes into production.
c'mon aptera.
It’s a difficult subject to discuss without sounding like you’re either bragging or talking down to those less well off.
I recently bought a new-to-me truck. I paid in cash, and if I wanted to, I could’ve bought two more. If I liquidated my investments, I could have bought three more, so six in total. I’m self-employed now, but I built all my wealth while working for a (plumbing) company where I was surrounded by people earning twice as much as I did. Yet, these are the people who need to finance their cars, have massive mortgages, and are always in a bad mood due to stress.
I understand that some people have been really unlucky and struggle to improve their financial position despite their best efforts, but these aren’t the people I’m talking about when I wonder how a working-age person can’t come up with a thousand bucks for an unexpected expense. I hardly even consider that a lot of money.
but I want to buy some land at some point, basically so I have more area to build stuff and make stuff.
I feel you there. What kind of things would you like to build? For me, it’s things like a rainwater harvesting system, solar/wind power, a pond with a pier and sauna, a chicken coop, a heated workshop with a car lift, a root cellar... I basically have an infinite list of projects I'd like to pursue.
"I basically have an infinite list of projects I'd like to pursue."
this is about where I'm at.
All the homesteading stuff, I want to try breeding meat rabbits, I want to try geothermal air conditioning, buy used cars and flip them (I started working on cars a few years ago and ended up enjoying it much more than I thought I would).
a whole separate area for home brewing and jerkying stuff too, canning, all that.
I like the idea of building different types of housing and read books and watch videos all the time, like straw bale or clay or underground, whatever the heck experimental cabins I could build, and I've further toyed with the beginning of an idea of how to turn that into low income housing after I land on the simplest, sturdiest and least resource intensive houses to build.
carpentry. I've built small tables and desks and chairs for classrooms, but I'd like to experiment with larger furniture.
I did a lot of solar power experimentation when I was living in a motorhome that turned out Great, and I expect many of my projects outside would be solar and wind powered.
fish farming, vermicomposting, yeah, just a thousand billion things haha.
I like making things, building things, and new experiences.
I've done smaller projects within most of the fields I've mentioned as the opportunity arose, but even when I'm renting a house somewhere for a couple months I can't easily conduct long-term larger living experiments, so I'll have to get a house and land at some point so I can fiddle at scale.
..."always in a bad mood due to stress."
circumstance and opportunity.
some people don't have the opportunities, many do have the opportunities but don't recognize them or choose not to take them because anything outside of what they already know makes them uncomfortable where is seen as difficult, and they haven't been taught or learned themselves through experience to push past that discomfort or initial effort.
Yeah I love all that. Flipping old cars is something I've thought about as well but something I'd be even more interested in is doing the same with boats. Now that I'm self-employed I've tought about getting a project boat that I could work on when ever business is otherwise slow. I couldn't fit a large one on my yard but some smaller fishing boat would be interesting to start with. When looking at old boats they often look like just even a simple pressure wash would double their price.
I'm doing well but i wish i could afford my hobbies.
I am not American, but Austrian. I earn way more money than I spend each month, causing my bank balance to rise over time; I am not going to say exactly how much I have, but €1000 (which is about the same as $1000) is no problem for me to afford when I need it.
While it's better than the alternative, it still doesn't make me very happy because this only helps fulfill the bottom two levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I wish I could easily earn less money, but have more free time to travel and pursue hobbies, but the system of wage labor is not flexible enough to cover the needs of someone like me.
Maybe it helps to understand it when you think of it from the perspective that those $1000 expenses do happen, they're not just hypothetical. But being able to cope with an event like that leaves you less able to handle a second one, and a third one
Couple that with the fact that I'm the US there is very little financial education so what might be an expected event for one person surprises another. Imagine living with a roommate and not realizing that to move into your own place involves coming up with first and last month rent, deposit, hook up fees, renters insurance, furniture, kitchen supplies, toiletries, etc... None of those should be unexpected, but also why would you expect them if you didn't happen to run into them before?
Basically no amount of saving accounts for an expense that takes it all, and it's then followed up by another one right after. And for some people those events are small and happen so quickly you never catch up and now you have late fees and interest and stress.
Ever read Miller's Death of a Salesman? well it's almost like that, but without any insurance.
I read that half of Americans couldn’t cover an unexpected $1,000 expense.
Without borrowing or selling property, yeah. Not a lot of people have that much liquid cash laying around.
But I wouldn't assume that this would be some kind of economic devastation. Our whole system revolves around easy credit.
If the unexpected expense is something that can be paid for on a credit card, that 20% interest isn't exactly ideal but for many people it can be a simple task of buying now and paying it off over 2 or 3 months. For them, $1000 isn't a lifestyle changing expense.
For others, $1000 might be devastating. It might be the difference between making rent or not, and ultimately lead to eviction and maybe even homelessness.
So liquidity is a different question from financial health or resilience, even if they're somewhat correlated. There are other metrics out there more directly measuring financial stability or vulnerability.
Better than ever. But I hate my job with a deep and burning passion, and I'm pretty deeply burnt out. So I'm not sure what to do. I'm worried that I won't be able to find anything that pays as well.
I made a few bad moves in my 20s because I had no basis of understanding when it came to money (parents are bad with money too and never taught me anything useful), have spent my 30s desperately treading water trying to get ahead, but it seems impossible with rent going through the roof, food going crazy, plus now I have medical debt on top of my school debt... my really big mistake was wanting to help people by becoming a social worker.
What pisses me off the most is that if you're a plumber you get to walk in and demand whatever price you feel like, but if you're someone who helps society, society gets to cram it up your ass and tell you to smile about it. Same goes for anyone who works for society: teachers, cops, firefighters, EMTs, social workers, librarians, nurses, etc... I don't get why we don't all just join together and let society fucking die until they agree to pay us what we're really worth.
Edit: to clarify, I'm not saying plumbers aren't helping society. I'm saying when inflation goes up, plumber's prices go up to match... If you're being paid by tax money, you don't get to do that. Nothing against plumbers, it was just an example.
Everyone is getting fucked in our capitalist nightmare, but if you work for Walmart, WALMART investors are fucking you over... If you work for any of those jobs I listed above, SOCIETY is fucking you over (yes, I get that at the end of the day it's still those Walmart investors fucking us over because the same 1% own everything and stop society from paying us what we're worth by refusing to pay their fair share of taxes)
What makes you think plumbers aren't helping society? Same goes for all trades...like damn.
"Society" doesn't pay plumbers... Like, you don't get your plumbing fixed and bill Medicaid you know? Individuals pay for their own plumbing, and plumbers get to set their own prices... The jobs I listed are most often paid by society as a whole, and society as a whole are screwing these professions over... Don't get me wrong, most workers are getting screwed, it's just different.
dont wanna pile on... but idk, man... next time you use a functional toilet, you might want to consider what you just said.
plumbers are likely in the top 5 of all time life savers on this planet. just sayin'.
respect you social work immensely, but everyone's contributions are undervalued in this world.
C'mon man... My list includes 5 jobs that literally save lives... Your figurative life saving can get right outta town
ok,
Share of the population using safely managed sanitation facilities
above Current Statistics with additional source links
but, as you said, all of these figurative people can get right outta town.
plumbers through history have saved countless lives, whether you think so or not. I say they are in the top 5 all-time life saving professions.
edit: upvoted you cuz you responded :-)
I'm tied down by one financial anchor and have opted to add two more smaller ones on top of that for giggles. I live very comfortably paycheck to paycheck, if I need to save for anything I can fairly easily put away around 3k a month. I can afford a random 1k expense without issue, currently anything above 2k would be a bit tougher, but still manageable.
It comes down to if you rent.
If you have a fixed mortgage, shit gets easier fast. If you rent, any wage increases is often offset by rent increases.
Less people are able to save, because they never get out of those "tough first years" of a mortgage
Renting is such bullshit these days. The payments they ask for rivals mortgage payments from just 15 years ago.
Live below my means, invest the rest.
I don't dress or act like people in my pay range. My house is small and in a quiet neighborhood and cost less than my salary. Car is older but paid off and I know all the quirks and have the toolbox in the back to fix it. It is probably one of the top 5 most reliable cars in history. My work dress shoes are 10 years old and my around the house shoes were new in 2019.
I spend my money where I spend my time. So I have a nice phone, a very nice monitor and mechanical keyboard, and a good computer. And all with the right to repair philosophy. Same for my wife and kids. And also good running shoes, good exercise equipment.
The plan is to get to a point where I can just not work at all and maintain my lifestyle. Three percent rule and all that. And also help launch my kids.
Something about a 25 year roof and a Japanese shit box car in my fortress of solitude.
FWIW I grew up really really really poor like you wouldn't believe so I'm okay with this.
I grew up upper-middle class and have largely the same philosophy. Always thought my friends’ parents were idiots for buying these gas guzzling Ford/Chevy monstrosities just to haul around 1-2 kids and a dog on occasion. Regular salaried people spending/financing more than half their annual income every few years on cars they don’t need just to keep up with the Joneses who don’t really care in the first place.
I don’t skimp on quality when I buy something, but I only buy what I actually need and if something serves its purpose, I hold onto it for as long as it works. My wife and I do very well now, but aside from living in a fairly nice neighborhood with great public schools and amenities, you wouldn’t think it from the cars we drive and the way we dress.
I just don't understand it. I see some people with $1000 car payments and nothing toward retirement. What ever happened to looking for good deals? We had a kind of "rugged ingenuity" thing growing up where you respected people who took care of their older stuff, and I guess that still holds true today. $1000 car payments, I would have paid off my car in under a year.
Honestly, I'm scared to spend. Which I guess is okay because I'm comfortable with how we live and sometimes you have to spend on life events out of your control.
What’s your relationship or philosophy with money?
A life-changing shift to my approach has been to worry about absolute amounts rather than percentages. Saving $10 on a $20 item feels great but ultimately is the same thing as saving $10 on a $500 item (which feels like nothing).
I grew up lower middle class: never had to worry about not having a roof over my head, but there were times we were somewhat food insecure, and spending money on leisure/entertainment or anything unnecessary for survival was a foreign concept until I got to high school and some my parents' career moves paid off and put us in upper middle class. It took them a good 10+ years before they could relax a little bit and feel secure with their money, though, and that was as much driven by the fact that their kids were adults who had moved out.
So life has been about deciding which of my parents' frugal attitudes and approaches to money to keep and which to discard.
Things I decided not to adopt:
Things I kept:
Things I had to learn on my own:
I've also made a shitload of mistakes, some of them pretty costly, especially back in my 20's:
I'm rich now, most of it from luck (especially timing), much of it from personal relationships (good family, good marriage, good friends), some of it from actual effort (good grades from a good law school), and some of it from conscious decisions to steer towards my strengths and away from my weaknesses (lazy but smart, prototypical "gifted" slacker with undiagnosed ADHD).
It took a while to get here, though, and I was financially insecure well into my 30's. Sorta figured shit out then, and then married someone who complements me pretty well on these things, and covers my blind spots.
For the extra brave ones: how much savings do you have, and what are you planning to do with them?
I have some savings, and it's an emergency fund. It's representing 1-2 months of typical spending, that could be stretched to 3-4 months if I needed to stop the frivolous spending. But I have credit beyond that, and less liquid assets I'd be able to tap into if I were facing a longer term issue.
But I'm not saving for any particular thing other than retirement. If things accumulate and grow, great. I'll make a judgment call on when to retire based on how I feel and how much I have and what I want to do. I anticipate my wife and I will probably want to retire in our early 60's, based on our anticipated career trajectories and the ages of our children.
They release data for stuff like this. Currently 46% can cover a cost of $2K or more with just savings. 57% for $1K or more.
I have $15k liquid savings and another $50k I could pull from my Roth IRA in a dire emergency. It's not as much as I'd like, but I'd be ok if I lost my job. I live in a HCOL area so it doesn't last as long as you'd think.
I make a good wage, but I work my ass off for it. I credit my financial success largely to luck, my work ethic, and the great state of California. 10 years ago I was making $20k a year, now it's close to $200k. The main difference was I moved to California. No college degree, blue collar job. Skilled labor. I took jobs with companies that would train me, took promotions, and job hopped a lot.
I pay a ton of taxes and I'm happy to. I'm giving back to the community that enabled my success. If anything, I should be paying more taxes. I do donate about $80 a month to various causes, mostly carbon capture to eliminate my personal carbon footprint, because the environment is very important to me and I like to feel I'm not part of the problem.
I still have $20k in debt, on credit cards but at a promo 2% interest. I hope to pay it off in 2 years.
My philosophy with money is honesty not very healthy in some respects. I've been chasing dollars for years, to the complete atrophy of my social life. I've been pouring money into my retirement and have about $300k saved up in 401ks and IRAs. I also send a ton of money to my parents who are still stuck in the poor Southern state I grew up in.
In my next phase of my career I hope to transition to a job that will keep the same wage but give me a better work/life balance. I work 60 hours a week, add commute time and it's 75 hours a week.
I'm also fucking sick of working with all dudes. The trades are overwhelmingly male. I can go weeks without even talking to a woman.
I'm in my mid 30s. I came to California homeless in a beat up '92 coupe with $30 in my pocket. I'm the poster child for pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, so listen to me when I say I would not be where I am without the support of a pro-worker government and a huge dose of luck. Taxes are good. Unions are good. Worker protections are good. Even with all that, I am an outlier. We (the fortunate) need to do more to help others.
I have a decent amount of money in a 401K that I can't touch, and some stocks I bought during a time when I fell into a bunch of money, but an unexpected $1000 would not be possible. I'm a 42 year old married man with 5 kids and a full time job at a small college.
I should be doing better than this.
With 5 kids, I'd say you're doing alright. Kids are so damn expensive.
Im doing pretty well. Living in Germany, educated parents. Did okay in school, never studied much though. Went to university, got my Masters in Mathematics (needed to study a lot for that, but its my passion anyway). Started working at an IT company in the same city.
3 years later, I have around 50k in savings now. We live in a small apartment, are in the middle of buying a house.
Capitalism is really fckd up, especially in the US. I try not to take advantage of it too much, up my monthly donations with every raise, vote left-ish, dont support big corporations.
I think the biggest factor for success is luck for being born under the right circumstances. Thats like 99%, the rest is having some self control.
Since I left college and started out into the "adult world", I've always spent less than I made, the rest going to savings or investments toward retirement. I accomplish this by "paying myself first". If I have already saved the money as my first priority, I can't spend it on things like rent or groceries. So my financial choices are forced to be more conservative by design.
Example: I forget what the max limit to IRAs were at the time (say $5k/yr) but for my first job I set up auto contributions each month and mentally took a $5k/yr salary "cut" for that job. Every time I got a raise, I made sure that at least a portion of that raise went to increasing my savings rate and attempted to avoid lifestyle creep.
Thanks to my savings, I've been able to handle some emergencies in cash vs having to utilize debt to cover the expenses. It really is a snowball. I started out small, now my savings is significant compared to my income.
I attribute a lot of my "pay yourself first" approach to reading The Automatic Millionaire, Expanded and Updated: A Powerful One-Step Plan to Live and Finish Rich early on.
I've got $0.85 in savings, because I put my rent and car payment money in my savings account each month until I need to pay those bills. I did at one point have $1000 saved up as a rainy day fun, but then it rained for a whole year (financially speaking). Now I don't even have credit cards to fall back on, as those have been maxed out and gone to collections. I'm looking for a job in an industry I left because it was driving me to alcoholism (software), but that job market sucks a little more than the service industry, so I'm not optimistic.
Oh yeah and I'd be homeless if I didn't have family who were willing and able to loan me rent money.
A 200k expense won't destroy me or lock me out of my house or completely destroy my retirement. No inheritance, went to college, and knew buying a house early was key, saved about 25% income for 3 years to put 45k down on house.
I have always strived to keep between 1-2 month’s worth of expenses in savings at all times. That small buffer has allowed me to ride out almost everything without going into debt, then when I am in debt I pay it off as quick as possible.
The worst thing you can do is get on a payment plan, as that normalizes having debt and you end up paying thousands in interest. All interest is, is you giving your money to someone else. I like to keep my money, so if I have to live off of ramen and hot dogs for a couple months, so be it.
All my jobs have been paycheck-to-paycheck until about 3 years ago. My last job allowed me to save up $24k, but then I lost my job. Now I'm down to $7k and getting worried.
I can lose my job for a year and be ok. I'd probably cut back on some expenses, but it would probably be ok.
I fall between the government won't give me SSI because I'm not disabled enough in there fucking eyes. And being disabled and can't work.
So financially I'm fucked and nothing I can do about it.
Even if I had said It would only be iirc around 800 a month.
It's part of Amerikkka hidden eugenic programs. (Not verified but living with a disability it sure fuckin feels like it)
The last year has been rough on my savings. The retirement savings are untouched but the general savings have been emptied by a combination of travelling for family weddings and a downturn at work. I'm not worried but I do need to make a change.