Not trying to start a fight, just curious. If you (vegans) already know we (meat eaters) don't care, why would you keep pursuing that line of argument?
this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2024
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At least for my part:
For the same reason I try to fight against injustices for people?
Why do I, as a male, condemn sexist behavior and fight against it? Why do I, as a teacher, stand in for the rights of my students when they get wronged? Why do I, as a human, hate to see other people fighting?
It's a mixture between empathy and a feeling of justice.
I just dislike unjust behavior - and for me, animal cruelty is unjust.
Sounds like you should be working on laws to restrict meat eating. That's typically how we handle injustices on a society wide scale.
You can't work on laws to restrict meat eating without getting the public onboard first. Our democracy is flawed, sure, but we don't live in an autocracy. Vegan activists do work day in and day out on lobbying for legislation. California just the other day banned octopus farming.
But that worked because the public was broadly onboard with it because of the recent public understanding of how intelligent octopodes are. If California somehow passed a restriction on meats like pork, beef, chicken, etc., then the entire state would immediately riot and kick the legislature out, completely undoing the restriction.
Good point.
Well, yes. That sounds reasonable at first.
But also, think of the broader public reaction, if governments started banning meat / animal products / whatever industries that exploit animals.
I do not think most people would be fine with a government mandated ban on those goods/practices.
I think you meant you condemn sexist behavior...
Big Oof.
Thanks for the note, I was kinda hastily writing this and not thinking it through.
Consider that we all used to be in your position.
What took you from not caring to caring?
Information, the same information those groups put on their signs when they protest
Like what? I'm wondering if there's something that would make me care.
Not the person you were talking to, but what took me from vegetarian to vegan was the documentary Dominion. I couldn't reconcile what was happening on the screen to the benefit I got from it. I felt appalled at myself.
I'm usually abysmal at sticking to personal change; this is probably one of the only ones that ever stuck with me.
I'm not vegan and won't ever be but can see that it does work just not to the extent a lot of them would like the world to. Like I said I'm not vegan however with the innovation of the meatless foods like the beyond burgers and such I'd be willing to try it IF I don't have to pay and if I like it then that's 1 more thing I'll do towards a better eco system even if microscopic. Then you have kids/teens who will see this and begin to lean towards being vegan as they wouldn't like what they see/learn.
At the end of the day even if it's a small audience they'll still reach people and change life styles which is ok
Humans, all humans, have a built in ability to not care about other people. This can easily extend to animals as well. That's all it is, they don't want to care so they don't. They want to eat/use animal products and are far enough removed from the gruesome aspects of it that they can just choose to not care.
I'm a native with prehistoric roots to meat eating and being part of the chain. I personally do not eat meat, but I see no moral issue with hunting in the way it's supposed to be. Not this AR 15 hunting for trophies bullshit. I'm talking ethical, respectful, using every part in a spiritual way. No factory farming. What are most vegans views on native culture in that sense?
I'm a person with prehistoric roots to eating humans and being part of the chain. I personally do not eat human meat, but I see no moral issue with hunting people in the way it's supposed to be. Not this AR-15 hunting for trophies bullshit. I'm talking ethical, respectful, using every part in a spiritual way. No factory farming. What are most non-cannibals' views on my culture in that sense?
That your culture is "native" makes it no less unethical, and killing with an AR-15 versus with a traditional weapon definitely has zero ethical difference (if anything, a bullet is likely minimally more humane).
AR-15 is just a rifle platform designation. It stands for Armalite (the company that developed the platform) Riffle - 15. They fire the same ammunition as any wooden stock rifle does (depending on your build). They are not some scary over powered gun. And, yes, some game does require you use a higher caliber in order to humanly kill the animal you are hunting. Smaller rounds would end up causing a longer drawn out death for the animal. I assure you most hunters do care about hunting compassionately.
Not trying to diminish your comment. I am strictly a bow hunter. I just feel like using the term AR-15 as a boogey man in any argument about guns is bad faith.
Now, if you are referring directly to curated exotic "hunting" farms, then I absolutely agree with you. Those establishments are a mockery of hunting. I will say, however, that many of those farms do work closely with conservation organizations, so it just really depends.
What's spiritual and ethical about taking a living being's life in 2024? There are just so many other foods to eat and ways to think about food that there just isn't an excuse to kill animals in my books.
Spirituality doesn't cut it for me. I'd for sure not like to be part of something like that
You realize plants are also alive before they are harvested for food, right?
What about the end goal of all this? If people stop eating cows, and then we stop keeping and breeding cattle because no one is eating them, where do all the cows go?
Same situation as what happened to the horses when cars were invented and then they became obsolete.
So drastic population decline, then?
I just worry that if humanity no longer has a use for cattle, they would likely be seen as a nuisance and driven to extinction.
I am pretty sure cattle will still be exploited indefinitely if not for their meat, then for their milk, so much cheese culture is built around it that I cannot see it stopped in the near future. Let’s see how that lab meat will turn out to be
The cows are headed to the horse and orphan grinder, I guess. Sad times.
Guilty as charged. Lol