this post was submitted on 28 Sep 2024
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I know there are lots of people that do not like Ubuntu due to the controversies of Snaps, Canonicals head scratching decisions and their ditching of Unity.

However my experience using Ubuntu when I first used it wasn't that bad, sure the snaps could take a bit or two to boot up but that's a first time thing.

I've even put it on my younger brothers laptop for his school and college use as he just didn't like the updates from Windows taking away his work and so far he's been having a good time with using this distro.

I guess what I'm tryna say is that Ubuntu is kind of the "Windows" of the Linux world, yes it's decisions aren't always the best, but at least it has MUCH lenient requirements and no dumb features from Windows 11 especially forced auto updates.

What are your thoughts and experiences using Ubuntu? I get there is Mint and Fedora, but how common Ubuntu is used, it seemed like a good idea for my bros study work as a "non interfering" idea.

Your thoughts?

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[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Professionally/commercially they're MILES ahead of Red hat, Oracle, or Suse.

Personally/free they do weird shit that usually doesn't seem make sense on its surface if you're not getting paid to learn it.

Take snaps for example: flatpak/app image/whatever makes more sense if you only care nothing beyond getting/running the software; but in a professional setting where you need third party info for something like an sbom or some sort of industry compliancy, snaps make it easy.

There was a time when Ubuntu was the distro for the masses. It was the one that "just worked." It was the one you could use for school. They distributed marketing material with a bunch of diverse young people holding hands.

Now Canonical's website is, by area, mostly corporate logos. They're B2B now, we have lost them, and it shows in their engineering.

If the system you're shopping for an OS for isn't installed in a room with halon extinguishers in the ceiling, you shouldn't even be thinking Canonical's name.

[–] yetAnotherUser@lemmy.ca 16 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Ubuntu isn't terrible, there are just bad things on Ubuntu that aren't present in other distros.

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[–] limelight79@lemm.ee 79 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

Every time this is asked, I post the same comment. I used Kubuntu for years and liked it, but more recently they started doing things that annoyed me. The biggest was related to snaps and Firefox. Now, sandboxing a browser is probably a great idea, but I wanted to use the regular deb install, so I followed the directions to disable the snap install and used the deb. However, Ubuntu overrode that decision several times - I'd start browsing, then realize I was using a snap AGAIN. Happened a few times over a couple years. If it happened once, eh, maybe an error, but it happened 3 or 4 times. I came to the conclusion I wasn't in control of my system, Ubuntu was.

I switched to Debian and am happy with my choice.

[–] friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 6 points 12 hours ago

I had the same experience on my one gui Ubuntu machine. I also have several headless machines, and due to some shared libraries I always ended up with snapd installed even though none of the packages I was running were installed through snap. I always found it through the mount point pollution that snapd does.

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[–] MajorHavoc@programming.dev 11 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Ubuntu was a big part of my path to full time Linux use. I adore everyone who has contributed to Ubuntu.

But also, Snaps are bullshit, and are why I replaced all my Ubuntu installs with Debian.

Canonical doesn't get to pretend to be surprised by the backlash for pushing an unnecessary closed proprietary platform on their freedom seeking users.

I still adore everyone at Canonical and I'm the Ubuntu coming, for all they've done for the community. Y'all still rock. Thanks!

[–] friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 25 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

Ubuntu is not terrible and if it works for you then fine. I would be surprised if Debian or Mint didn't also work for you just as well though.

[–] boonhet@lemm.ee 4 points 10 hours ago (7 children)

Debian can be annoying if you want to install a newish version of something from the package manager. It's why I can't use APT to keep Rust up to date and have to use Rustup instead, for an example.

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[–] m4m4m4m4@lemmy.world 26 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I'm old and my gateway to Linux was Ubuntu 5.10 via a live CD they gave me at uni back in 2006.

I got to experience it when they used to take seriously their "Linux for human beings" motto.

Those were GNOME 2 and kernel 2.x times. Albeit the limitations of the technology (40GB HDD disk, 256 MB RAM, an Intel Xeon processor which I can't remember it's exact specs) it felt way snappier (no pun intended) than Windows. You could felt they cared about it in that brown visual theme, the icons, the sounds, the way the documentation was phrased - you could feel the Ubuntu in it.

I ended wiping my entire docs drive while trying to install it but got to learn lots of stuff and feel like my computer was actually mine.

Same as for many people my generation, I switched to Linux thanks to that Ubuntu. It's really sad what it has become and the poor, selfish decisions they have taken, but still it keeps holding a special place in the Linux memories.

[–] boonhet@lemm.ee 5 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Absolutely. I hate Ubuntu now, but Karmic Koala was my gateway drug. I was scared of partitioning so wubi meant I could still try it out.

Then Unity happened and I no longer cared for Ubuntu.

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[–] SolarPunker@slrpnk.net 16 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

There are just better noob-friendly distributions like LinuxMint.

[–] Xavienth@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 11 hours ago (3 children)

I watched a video of a Linux noob trying it for the first time. They chose Mint, and a significant amount of problems arose from the fact that mint is still on an old kernel version, and there was little to no indication from the OS or from cursory googling that updating it would fix the issue or even that you should do that.

[–] laurelraven@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 hours ago

It literally says on the website where you download it, if you have new hardware to use the Edge Edition (though it's not there right now, likely because the current Mint version already has a new kernel)

[–] TechnicallyColors@lemm.ee 4 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Mint uses the same kernel version as Ubuntu, so that's not really a point in favor of Ubuntu in any case. Do you remember what video it was?

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 1 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

If you open up the kernel manager you can switch to a newer release

Also I think they now have a version with a newer kernel

[–] Xavienth@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 hour ago

That's obvious to you to do, yes. You have experience with Linux.

[–] TCB13@lemmy.world 38 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

The thing with Ubuntu / Canonical isn't that it doesn't work, it is that they've bad policies and by using their stuff you're making yourself vulnerable to something akin to what happened with VMWare ESXi or with CentOS licensing - they may change their mind at some point and you'll be left with a pile of machines and little to no time to move to other solution.

For starters Ubuntu is the only serious and corporate-backed distribution to ever release a major version on the website and have the ISO installer broken for a few days.

Ubuntu’s kernel is also a dumpster fire of hacks waiting for someone upstream to implement things properly so they can backport them and ditch their own implementations. We've seen this multiple times, shiftfs vs VFS idmap shifting is a great example of the issue.

Canonical has contributing to open-source for a long time, but have you heard about what happened with LXD/LXC? LXC was made with significant investments, primarily from IBM and Canonical. LXD was later developed as an independent project under the Linux Containers umbrella, also funded by Canonical. Everything seemed to be progressing well until last year when Canonical announced that LXD would no longer remain an independent project. They removed it from the Linux Containers project and brought it under in-house development.

They effectively took control of the codebase, changed repositories, relicensed previous contributions under a more restrictive license. To complicate matters, they required all contributors to sign a contract with new limitations and impositions. This shift has caused concerns, but most importantly LXD became essentially a closed-off in-house project of Canonical.

Some people may be annoyed at Snaps as well but I won't get into that.

[–] hddsx@lemmy.ca 8 points 11 hours ago

I only joke about Arch being the superior distro because, well, I use it and because it’s apparently a thing.

I actually don’t have any strong feelings about Ubuntu. It’s a distro. It works. I only use Arch because of the AUR (I’m lazy, okay?). I don’t have strong feelings about it either. Linux is configurable to basically exactly what you want. Once (or if) you get into customization you just pick the distro that allows you to get to what you want faster.

I do have strong feelings about Windows though.

[–] SeikoAlpinist@slrpnk.net 17 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

Ubuntu was a successful attempt to make Debian user-friendly. If you don't remember Linux in 2003, it took a lot of time to configure.

Ubuntu came along and did everything automatically from first install. Some of the polish it had was things like smooth fonts, TrueType font support (remember old XFree86 Bitmap fonts?) a GUI installer, automatically detecting your monitor resolution, setting up sound automatically, and automatic downloading of firmware needed to make your hardware work. In just one reboot after install, you had a usable system that looked really nice, with smooth fonts.

In 2024, Debian already does all of this out of the box. The value add of Ubuntu is minimal. Ubuntu provides a theme, a splash screen when booting up, a custom font, and a modified version of the Dash to Dock extension that you can just download yourself from the Gnome extension site. That's it. One might argue that snaps make Ubuntu worse than Debian.

Just use Debian. If you want a somewhat more polished system (nice cursors, unique icons, easy to configure animations), there is Mint Debian edition.

It takes less time to just set up Debian to look and behave like Ubuntu (about 10 minutes) than it takes to continually fight against Ubuntu snaps.

Just use Debian.

[–] BananaTrifleViolin@lemmy.world 22 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

Ubuntu does work and is a decent distro in many ways. The problems are around how canonical leverages things for its own financial benefit for the detriment of users and the Linux community.

A good example is Snap. It is forced on users - even Firefox is a snap on Ubuntu. This is not an efficient way fo end users to run their system or their most used software.

Instead of making the builds available as standard software, users have to use the Snap or go hunting elsewhere for builds. That's anti-user and is identical to how Microsoft behaves with windows. It doesn't do things to benefit users, it does things to benefit Microsoft.

It's arguable whether what snap does is actually worth the overhead - I can see that it is more secure in many ways. But then so it Flatpak, and that is more universally used for desktop software across Linux distros. Snap has some inherent benefits for server side use but then why force it on end users where it is not as good as Flatpak in many ways? Or Appimage?

So Ubuntu is fine in many ways, but why bother when you can go for alternatives and give the best of both worlds? Mint is an Ubuntu based distro without snap and other canonical elements. I used mint for ages, it's great and there is a reason it's so popular.

I've moved on to OpenSuSE now but the Ubuntu ecosystem is fine, it works well for many, and it's very well documented and supported which often works downstream in Mint and others. It's just Ubuntu itself thats a bit crappy due to the decisions made to suite canonical rather than what users want or would suit them best. In the end it all comes down to personal choice and what people are willing to accept from their distro.

[–] wewbull@feddit.uk 19 points 15 hours ago

The distribution is fine, maybe even good.

The politicking and project management around the distro has annoyed a lot of people.

[–] boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net 14 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

The Term

The issue is that, no Ubuntu is not "the Windows" of Linux.

First of all this statement makes no sense. You could say "the Samsung of the Android world" as Samsung Android is a Distribution that looks nice and many people think it is nice to use (leaving out that it is the most spyware-riddled software on locked devices with horrible customer treatment)

Windows is just one OS. Android is an easy variant of Linux, and Ubuntu was one too.

Nowadays, uBlue Aurora/Bazzite would be my "best Desktop Linux", because they implement all the great, easy and modern stuff of Fedora Atomic Desktops, while also removing stupid opinionated things, and adding packages they legally simply cannot ship.

Updates & Upgrades

Ubuntu is not easy anymore. Distro upgrades are a mess and break. I had 12 laptops, all had the same 3 issues and updates took forever.

Ubuntu requires a sudo account for them to even work, a nonsudoer gets an update message but clicking it does nothing.

I.e. they dont use polkit, unlike Fedora for example.The paradigm of

  1. Needing a user with sudo rights to use a system, otherwise an admin needs to login every week and do the GUI updates
  2. Updates and upgrades being a privileged action that requires root permission

Is just bad. Android works without root since forever, and I would say it is the easiest Linux distro out there.

Style

They have their own strange icons, which look worse than GNOMEs. They have their own strange store instead of using and improving GNOME Software.

Their design sucks in comparison to Manjaro if you ask me. Most personal point of this list. Many other Distros just ship GNOME, do the packaging and leave the Branding to small changes, and the upstream DE.

Snaps

Snaps are not cross platform, while Flatpak exists and is cross platform.

Ubuntu doesnt even have uptodate flatpak and dependencies in their repos so the Flatpak project maintains like 6 PPAs just to run them on Ubuntu.

Snaps are not cross platform because they rely on AppArmor for sandboxing, and afaik custom AppArmor patches that are not in upstream.

This means Snaps on Fedora and others would run Snaps unsandboxed.

Technically they are fine. Pretty normal approach. But their repo hat big malware issues and they only allow a single one, which is a total nogo for any opensource project.

Snaps installed by other users with sudo cannot be opened by other users. You need to install them per-user, no other option possible.

Flatpak requires wheel/sudo too, I need to make a Fedora Change request to fix that, my previous one got rejected...

Variants & LTS

They only ship KDE on the LTS variant, which means by now it is very outdated. KDE is the most windows-like desktop, and also has the most features, by far. I tried GNOME and made a writeup on Fedora discuss.

Bloat

They bloat (at least) their (LTS) variants with tons of deb packages.

Safety & Snapshots

They dont integrate timeshift or other backup systems. Linux Mint and OpenSUSE are better here. Fedora Atomic Desktops too, while traditional Fedora not.

[–] savvywolf@pawb.social 13 points 14 hours ago

Honestly, IMO Mint is just Ubuntu without all the scetchy stuff. The only real major difference (besides the packaging debate) is the default graphical shell.

If you like gnome shell, I wonder if it's worth installing Mint and then gnome-shell...

[–] DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

Ubuntu started and stayed great for many years. Now I feel it's coasting on the name it rightly earned. It was my daily driver but I left after frustration with firefox snap and some networking malarkey I don't care to recall. There are just better maintained distros out there.

[–] westyvw@lemm.ee -1 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (2 children)

Most crashy breaky mainstream distro there is and always has been.

It's barely tolerable.

But I did used to like the departure from blue themes like nearly everyone else.

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[–] electricprism@lemmy.ml 5 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

Ubuntu is a fine "nice to meet you" distro -- the criticisms I've gathered happen a few months in. Nvidia+Xorg updates dropping GUI to TUI, MDADM shitting the bed and dropping RAID, the awkward 6 month upgrades where you go from old weird issues in apps to new weird issues -- thou snap and flatpak improve this a lot over stock.

Canonical NIH, Canonical CLA agreement, history of charging forward only to abandon in house tech over and again after users get comfy.

Then there are inner politics and the occasional hankyness inside, or discourteousness like when they shit the bed dropping lib32 without talking to partnrrs like Valve on how this would effect their business after they made Ubuntu their target.

Criticisms typically are based in something. I had started using Ubuntu since 2004 IIRC and its been an interesting ride.

Oh also, PPA's, avoid those, they're not stock and don't be surprised if your OS doesn't boot with the less than stellar ones not staying in sync with the latest kernel updates.

YMMV and this is by no means advice on your personal fit.

Personally I am not fond of most casual user low barrier distros but I still recommend them. Manjaro, PopOS, LinuxMint, Endless, are all fine options depending on what kind of user.

I recently recommended one to a GameDev and considering SteamOS is Arch he decided on Manjaro over Debian.

YMMV, and its important to listen first to people to see what they want their machine to do.

One last criticism of Canonical and Ubuntu. Their HQ is UK based and I honestly wonder how the culture effects development. Germany, UK, California all have different "feels", its hard to be more specific.

Choice is good, always keep your data backed up and the @home on a different partition. The differences across distros are largely not a big deal like they used to be. People find solus in being captain of their Linux adventure and even Ubuntu will do just fine at the basics, just know if you hit a snag it may not be like that on every distro.

[–] shirro@aussie.zone 2 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

The biggest similarity with Windows is that it isn't a community run project. In my opinion they tried very hard to represent themselves as an open source community in the early days and downplay Canonical's role. There is nothing wrong with Ubuntu as a first introduction to Linux but if people are looking for a project to join and make contributions there are many better options.

[–] eugenia@lemmy.ml 33 points 11 hours ago (7 children)

I don't like snaps (nor flatpaks for that matter, they're too big for my slow internet connection here in my Greek village). But I find it absolutely, 100%, crazy to install gimp and darktable via snaps, and not being able to print (the print option is just not there, because they're snaps and somehow they haven't implemented that for these apps). As an artist who sells prints, this makes the whole distro completely and utterly USELESS to me. Sure, they can be found as deb packages too, but they're older. And Firefox is also sandboxed. And when I installed Chromium from the command line as a deb, it OVERWROTE my wish, and installed Chromium as a snap too.

So, no ubuntu for me. The only advantage it has is that many third party apps (usually commercial ones) that release binary tarballs or appimages have tested with ubuntu and they usually work well (minus davinci resolve). I don't have a big trouble with appimages as they're generally smaller than the kde/gnome frameworks that flatpaks/snaps use, and they're one file-delete away from getting rid of them completely. They're just more straightforward.

[–] Churbleyimyam@lemm.ee 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

What sort of printers do you make your prints with? And do you print directly from GIMP or from something else? I've been trying to set up a FOSS printing workflow using Canon giclee printers, which has been mostly successful but I haven't yet figured out how to print custom sizes on roll paper, only standard sizes on sheet paper.

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[–] GenderNeutralBro@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 10 hours ago (6 children)

Yeah, this kind of things drove me batty on Ubuntu. So many things were delivered as Snaps when they just don't work that way. The funniest one to me was Filebot. It's a media file naming/organizing tool....that doesn't have disk access. Are you kidding me, Canonical?

Flatpak is easier to work with, but has similar issues. Great for simple things, but I'm always worried that at some point I'm going to need some features that just won't work, and then it's going to be a hassle to migrate to a native installation. And it has no CLI support.

And yeah, the bloat is wild. Deduplication on btrfs (or similar) helps but there's no getting past the bandwidth bloat.

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[–] Molten_Moron@lemmings.world 9 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

And when I installed Chromium from the command line as a deb, it OVERWROTE my wish, and installed Chromium as a snap too.

This right here is my issue with Ubuntu. A huge part of Linux for me is that I am in control of my OS and machine. If I use apt to install a package, it's because I want the .deb version. I absolutely don't need my OS telling me "I know what you asked for, but I'm going to give you the snap version anyway".

I could see snaps being preferred over .debs in the Software app, sure (though they shouldn't be the only option). But replacing apps in a command line tool is garbage.

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[–] jjlinux@lemmy.ml 4 points 6 hours ago

That shit of installing what it wants how it wants is MicroShit behavior.

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[–] superkret@feddit.org 11 points 14 hours ago

I dislike Ubuntu, because it literally never successfully upgraded from one release to the next.
It's also the buggiest distro I've experienced, and I've tried quite a few. I'm talking about bugs like:

  • do a fresh install
  • log into Gnome
  • first thing that pops up is an error message about a crashed service

or:

  • do a fresh install
  • open Software Center
  • it doesn't load, keeps spinning the cursor

Stuff like this disqualifies a distro for years in my opinion.

[–] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 8 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

In my opinion Ubuntu-bashing is unjustified and counterproductive.

Unjustified because Ubuntu is great! I say that having used it exclusively for years without a problem. That has to be worth something. Yes, there's the Snap issue, and occasional shenanigans from Canonical, but so far these problems are not existential. For context I've been on Linux for 2 decades (also Debian) but I am not a typical techie (history major). Ubuntu just works.

Counterproductive because Linux needs a flagship distro for beginners. Just the word Linux is daunting to most normies! We absolutely need a beginner distro with name recognition. Well, this may hurt to hear but Ubuntu is basically the only candidate. Name recognition does not come cheap. At this point it is decades of work and we should not be squandering it.

[–] laurelraven@lemmy.zip 7 points 4 hours ago (3 children)

Ubuntu really isn't the only candidate though... Mint may not have quite as much name recognition, but I don't think it's that far off, and it has pretty much all of the benefits of Ubuntu without the issues.

Mint just works.

And I absolutely think it's justified to call Canonical out for things like quietly redirecting apt to install snaps instead or throwing up scare messages to make people think they're insecure if they don't pay for a subscription or adding unnecessary packages to the minimal install image that're only useful for paid subscribers but call home regardless

Canonical has been toxic and getting worse, not calling them out is basically telling them it's okay for them to treat the community the way they have.

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[–] melroy@fedia.io 8 points 14 hours ago

Ubuntu is so bad in supporting deb packages, that the default included UI package installer under Ubuntu 24.04 didn't support deb packages. See: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2497203

Yes it's that bad. This is the reason I don't promote Ubuntu anymore, they went too far. They crossed a line. Just use Linux Mint or something.

[–] 4vr@lemmy.ca 8 points 9 hours ago

Ubuntu used to work out of the box and with sensible defaults but that’s no longer the case.

Gave Ubuntu another try a month back and external monitor resolution wasn’t right at all.

Switched back to Pop OS.

[–] Nyanix@lemmy.ca 6 points 5 hours ago

My perspective is simple, a win is a win. If someone makes the leap to Linux, that's a huge win, regardless of distro.

[–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 5 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Third party package mechanism is fundamentally broken in Ubuntu (and in Debian).

Third party repos should never be allowed to use package names from the core repos. But they are, so they pretend they're core packages, but use different version names, and at upgrade time the updater doesn't know what to do with those version and how to solve dependencies.

That leaves you with a broken system where you can't upgrade and can't do anything entirely l eventually except a clean reinstall.

After this happened several times while using Ubuntu I resorted to leaving more and more time between major upgrades, running old versions on extended support or even unsupported.

Eventually I figured that if I'm gonna reinstall from scratch I might as well install a different distro.

I should note I still run Debian on my server, because that's a basic install with just core packages and everything else runs in Docker.

So if you delegate your package management to a completely different tool, like Flatpak, I guess you can continue to use Ubuntu. But it seems dumb to be required to resort to Flatpak to make Ubuntu usable.

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[–] Ephera@lemmy.ml 5 points 12 hours ago

My workplace preinstalls Ubuntu, personally I'm using openSUSE. I don't even think that Ubuntu is particularly bad, I'm mainly frustrated with it, because it's just slightly worse than openSUSE (and other distros) in pretty much every way.
It's less stable, less up-to-date, less resilient to breakages. And it's got more quirky behaviour and more things that are broken out-of-the-box. And it doesn't even have a unique selling point. It's just extremely mid, and bad at it.

[–] lurch@sh.itjust.works 5 points 15 hours ago

I think Ubuntu is very good, if you want quick and easy. It's incedibly painless.

However, it does forced auto updates by default. They are called unattended-upgrades and run in the background by default. You can pause or disable them though. Also snaps auto update silently, by default. That can also be paused, though.

What really sucks is, if you don't have a printer it continues to try and install cups, which can be a security concern. However, I successfully blocked it by creating an immutable file where it would put the snap, while it was uninstalled.

[–] linearchaos@lemmy.world 5 points 12 hours ago

Canonical historically makes bad decisions. Ubuntu any most points in time is simply great. Their LTS is fab. But they're hungry. And they screw with us over time. the latest Debian just erased most of the reason to go with Ubuntu adding nonfree, and they haven't screwed us over.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 4 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

Its not like it is the only option. There are so many better systems these days it isn't even funny. Use Linux Mint, Fedora, Pop OS or maybe even Bazzite.

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