Considering they can't make functional tanks or rockets, this might be their only hope.
this post was submitted on 25 Sep 2024
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Time to put sanctions on China. This would be interesting.
Never going to happen. The West relies way too much on Chinese manufacturing.
Oh no, it would force us to fix our economy, how awful!
You can't just make factories appear out of nowhere.
You literally can, it's called construction.
Which takes a lot of time and money and manpower. It also requires people who understand how to manufacture those things.
Don't pretend this would be either easy or doable within any sort of short timeframe.
It has to start somewhere
It has to start sometime
What better place than here?
What better time than now?
It has been started. It is happening. But it will take a very, very long time before the West will be able to rely on themselves and not China for important manufacturing.
It has not been started in any serious way. There is basically no incentive to manufacture most goods in the US.
I don’t recall hearing anything recently about a push to manufacture inside the states. Just a lot of pushing to places like India.
Have you not kept up with the microchip fab they've been moving to Arizona? It was a whole big thing.
What else besides microchips?
I like how you're making light of microchips so small only a handful of plants in the world can make them but yeah no big deal. But also lots of renewable energy plants, and companies, those are very ubiquitous.
I’m saying that “made in USA” is not a label I see very often. And each one of those American owned companies should make an effort to put that label on their products.
There's a little bit here and there. There were some federal laws to incentivize microchip manufacturing in the U.S., but it's not really an overall thing.
There has always been a push to manufacture in the states. The first buy American law dates back to 1933 (or at least the first I found with a quick search - feel free to correct me if you know more). George Washington wore a suit from New England at his inauguration to encourage American manufacturing. Things have been moving elsewhere for a long time, but there is still a push to build in the US, and new manufacturing in the Us is created all the time.
The series of free trade agreements the US negotiated with everyone they could would say otherwise.
Created as fast as it’s lost?
Created faster than lost overall. There is more total manufactured in the US than at anytime in history. However population is up even more than production and jobs in factories are down by an order of magnitude (because of automation) and so it seems like we are producing less.
If you're producing less per capita, and consuming more per capita, you're producing less overall for the purposes of the discussion around relative pain of cutting off Chinese imports.
That sounds like a "how to lie" with statistic fact. You can use per capita or total production numbers to make different arguments.
No, it's focusing the conversation.
We're talking about the relative pain of cutting off Chinese imports or getting into a trade war with them. In that context, the fact that we import far more from them then we produce domestically compared with decades ago means that it will be more painful to do so now than it would have been decades ago.
The reality is that while there is a tiny 'buy American' push from some people, the vast majority of the American economy and regulations are setup to allow private capital to trade freely abroad and import at will. And it was done intentionally so that rich people could benefit from cheap overseas labour, furthering wealth inequality when middle class factory workers lost their jobs to increase corporate profits with cheaper overseas factories.
It has happened before, there’s already a variety of sanctions on China.
I imagine that it will somehow turn out to be a "private company" in China that's cooperating, rather than an official gov't organ. Already the gov't is saying it's unaware of this project, so..
So yes sanctions will apply to the "companies" that are involved (which are basically fly by night, or spring up once to do this and then fold themselves). More usefully, some individuals might get named and sanctioned. And finally there'll be a new talking point in negotiations with China in getting greater cooperation to reign in some of these private companies.
Not saying we shouldn't try to sanction them. But it's also worth being mindful of the challenges ahead.
I like how people are like 'just build factories here' as if many of the raw materials for those factories arent also from China, or processed in China.
This will force the hand of US and EU to sanction China one way or another. Of course diplomatic solutions can be worked out. What it will be has yet to be seen. As you're aware, China has tried to avoid supplying arms directly to Russia until this move. It maybe that Chinese will manufacture the drones in Russia to avoid being seen as exporting arms.
I'll believe it when I see it.
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