this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2024

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Israeli military says it has recovered the bodies of 6 hostages in a Gaza operation (apnews.com)

submitted 3 months ago by steventhedev@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

39 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Yagev Buchshtab, Alexander Dancyg, Avraham Munder, Yoram Metzger, Nadav Popplewell and Haim Perry

all 42 comments

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[–] girlfreddy@lemmy.ca 40 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I have yet to read anything that helps me understand why Israel, based on the premise of "freeing the hostages", decided to carpet bomb the actual areas the hostages would be held in. I mean it makes zero sense to spend months doing that, and then publically announce every time they find hostages' bodies ... like it's some kind of accomplishment. It's not. It is a massive fucking failure but nobody seems to be calling Israel out on that failure.

[–] febra@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago

It's as if they never really cared about the hostages but just use them as a bargaining chip to continue their war on palestinians.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 3 months ago

Those hostages? Believe it or not: Hamas.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 38 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

How many people did they kill this time, in order to recover dead bodies?

Last time, they killed 120-somehing Palestinian civilians to save 2 Israeli hostages and the time before that, they killed over 100 to retrieve dead bodies.

[+] Eheran@lemmy.world -34 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

Why where the hostages surrounded by 120 civilians? At what point is a civilian not a civilian anymore? If he has hostages at home? Were there any non-civilians?

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 23 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Why where the hostages surrounded by 120 civilians

Because Gaza is one of the densest urban areas in the world. When you level an apartment complex, you're GOING to kill innocent people. Especially if you, like the Israeli government, consider all Palestinians Hamas and therefore do nothing to limit civilian casualties.

[–] bravesilvernest@lemmy.ml 16 points 3 months ago

"Why do you make us do this! Oh woe to me, there is no other way to get these hostages other than to bomb a populated area. What else am I to do? pushes button How terrible that you made me do that! ...now, I wonder how soon we can get some settlers over here."

[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago

Because Gaza is the most densely packet place on earth. You can literally run the langth of Gaza in an afternoon and the width of it in a lunch break. Not excusing anything Hamas did/does but where are the civilians to fucking go?

[+] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win -48 points 3 months ago (5 children)

Hey I have an idea. How about all hostages get freed so civilian lives aren't imperilled.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 29 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Do you mean including the Palestinians held hostage in Israeli military prisons being physically, psychologically, and sexually tortured after being "arrested" on false or no charges?

Because there's literally hundreds of times as many of THOSE hostages than Israeli ones.

Also, you're BEYOND gullible if I think Israel won't continue murdering Palestinian civilians after they've gotten the hostages. That's not what it's about.

Murdering or driving away every single Gazan so they can steal more land has always been the purpose. October 7th and the hostages are just convenient excuses for them to commit the war crimes they already wanted to.

[+] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win -37 points 3 months ago (3 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 19 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I obviously meant from the perspective of the genocidal apartheid regime, not myself.

The October 7th attacks and hostage taking were beyond atrocious and my heart goes out to the families of the victims of both. The only reason I didn't say so was because it goes without saying.

They're not the REAL reason that the Israeli apartheid regime is still committing crimes against humanity on a daily basis 10 months later, though.

[+] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win -26 points 3 months ago (1 children)

So we're in agreement then. Thank you for toning it down.

I will point out that even saying doesn't help. I said 'all' hostages and am still getting presumptive hate from others.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 21 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I said 'all' hostages and am still getting presumptive hate from others

Probably because of your own ridiculous presumption that Israel wouldn't keep murdering Palestinians with impunity after the return of the hostages.

[+] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win -15 points 3 months ago (2 children)

That's not the presumption. The presumption is if the hostages are all released it vastly reduces Israeli excuses and support which would reduce civilian casualties to a level that at least is no longer existential.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

if the hostages are all released it vastly reduces Israeli excuses

They'll just come up with new ones. Netanyahu is already talking about "finishing the job" more than about the hostages.

and support

Israelis are literally blockading military bases to protect soldiers credibly accused of torture-raping Palestinian hostages. They may well care about the Israeli hostages, unlike the government, but they support the genocide and as a rule don't consider Palestinians human.

which would reduce civilian casualties to a level that at least is no longer existential.

Nope. There's zero chance of that happening without a regime change and arrests of some of the key figures in the fascist Israeli government coalition. ZERO.

[–] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win -5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

They are doing that because to some extent they have a sympathetic excuse: They are rescuing hostages.

Releasing all hostages is the first step to removing all (I should have spelt this out explicitly the first time) external support. It would be difficult for even far right Republicans to (adequately) justify supporting continued bombing of even proven Hamas strongholds amongst civilian population if there were no immediate justification for doing so.

Hell, if Hamas released all the hostages and flat out turned in the leaders with ICC warrants pleading with the UN for humanitarian and justice relief it would be extremely difficult for a Biden, let alone Harris government to rationalize vetoing UN intercession to stop the hostilities completely and arrest the indicted Israelis.

From my perspective, this holding on to the injustices as an excuse to unnecessarily perpetuate atrocities is just as responsible for continuing this shit show as the person pushing the launch button. At some point you have to let it go or this continues on forever, or to a grim end no decent human being wants.

[–] girlfreddy@lemmy.ca 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

They are rescuing hostages.

The IDF has only rescued 7 hostages, so hardly an excuse to murder tens of thousands.

Releasing all hostages is the first step to removing all (I should have spelt this out explicitly the first time) external support.

Nope. The US has supported Israel throughout their continued land grabs from, and murder of, Palestinians in the West Bank (prior to and during the hostage crisis). Absolutely nothing would change even if all the hostages were released now.

[–] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win -5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Clearly there is no point in changing anything then. Terrorism and genocide must inevitably continue as there is no hope anything (including protesting and bitching on Lemmy) but unrepentant indiscriminate violence will solve this. /s

[–] girlfreddy@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You weren't advocating for change. You were going for a complete hostage release and little else.

[–] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win -4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

No, you're advocating that nothing will change no matter what we do, including getting the hostages released.

Even IF nothing changes at least the hostages are free. Like, I don't understand how advocating to keep hostages is okay on this of all servers.

[–] todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

if the hostages are all released

The problem here is that this "if" is never going to happen. Israel has killed many of these hostages in their indiscriminate attacks against Gaza, and the bodies will never be recovered.

If you're using this "if" as the foundation of continuing to wage war, all you have is an excuse for a forever war.

The hostages are dead. Most were probably killed by the IDF. They are an excuse to commit to a campaign of extermination.

[–] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win 0 points 3 months ago

The hostages are dead

So you simultaneously believe Hamas is negotiating in bad faith but only place blame on Israel.

[–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

You risk justifying genocide otherwise.

The only genocide over there is commited by Israel.

[–] gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world 21 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You think Palestinian lives weren't being threatened and taken by Israeli violence before October 7?

[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Isreal was indiscriminately bombing and taking land before October 7th, all they are just more active now. The violence will only stop if Isreal gives back all the land and gives Palestinians full autonomy. Hamas are murderous assholes, but they weren't created in a vacuum. In fact Hamas is directly supported and funded by the IDF so the only true victims in this conflict are the Palestinians civilians and the non zionest Israelis

[–] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win -5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

This is the only thing I disagree with in your statement:

The violence will only stop if Isreal gives back all the land and gives Palestinians full autonomy

[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Oh with no explanation as to why you think that?

[–] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win -5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

For a non-exhaustive list of the ways the violence can end see my previous comments above, or consider peace can be achieved through victory as well.

[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Victory? Like the extermination of all Palestinian people? Cuz that's the only way the IDF will consider victory

[–] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win -3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That, or Hamas exterminates Israel.

[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That's not an true option. You can never exterminate a group of people without starting ww3

[–] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win -3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

So Palestinians aren't being genocided, or we're in WW3?

[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

They are being genocided. But if history has taught us anything is impossible to kill everyone. Doesn't mean it's still not genicidal.

[–] todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee 2 points 3 months ago

The Nazis justified their attempt to exterminate the Jews by claiming that they were only defending themselves against Jewish plans to destroy Germany and its population.

The Israelis justify their attempts to exterminate the Palestinians by claiming that they were only defending hostages from harm, and rescuing them from their captors, while bombing Gaza so severely that many hostage bodies will never be recovered, and may have already been found unrecognizable and dumped in a mass graves by IDF soldiers following various civilian massacres taking place on a regular basis.

You understand this though. You just clearly seem to support it...

[–] FelixCress@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago

How about Israel to fuck off from Palestine so nobody's life is taken away?

[–] steventhedev@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I wonder if this was some concession by Hamas as part of the negotiations

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 3 months ago

Israel’s military said its forces recovered the six bodies of hostages in an overnight operation in southern Gaza, saying they were killed during a time that troops were operating in Khan Younis. Hamas says some captives have been killed in Israeli airstrikes, though returning hostages have talked about difficult conditions in captivity, including lack of food or medications.

Doesn't look like it