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AOC is definitely a voice in politics I've come to respect. I can assume pretty confidently that her opinion is well founded and with the right intentions... if she thinks Biden is best option at this point, that tells me pretty conclusively that Biden is genuinely the best option at this point.
The debate shenanigans, the age, whatever: all of that is a fraction of a drop in the ocean compared to the shitstorm that would be Trump presidency. It doesn't matter if any of us like Biden. Do you want a literal fascist running the country? If no, vote Biden. If yes, abstain / vote for literally anyone else.
I wish it was possible to convince trump supporters that he's literally not on their side
I've been making pitches for the libertarian party to my trumpanzee coworkers. It's a similar flavor of bullshit as the turds the GOP is already feeding them, so they're somewhat susceptible to it.
No chance in hell I'll be able to convince them to vote Biden, so burning a would-be Trump vote on the spoiler effect is the next best thing.
I'd really prefer another candidate, but under our current system and circumstances, Biden is our best option.
Someone mentioned it in the thread about Elizabeth Warren supporting Biden. It isn't odd that smart, anti-wealthy, and anti-Trump at all costs progressives are backing Biden, and wealthy Democrat donors and centrist Democrats are demanding change.
These people see the risk a new candidate would bring. The wealthy just want someone who reflects their image. Either candidate doesn't really hurt their lifestyle.
Part of it has been that Biden has been implementing a lot of progressive policies. He may not be the perfect progressive candidate, but he is a lot better than other options.
Biden doesn't make policy decisions standing at podium reading a teleprompter. He sits in meeting and has discussions with advisors and has follow up discussions and rewrites policies and discusses votes and rewrites again with further discussions. That's who I'm voting for and I think he is still able to do that.
They know this already. They aren’t going to be educated on the matter. They’re not voting and working hard to convince others not to as well.
The best thing you can do is call this out when you see it. Ask them to answer how they’d prefer life under Trump’s thumb. Ask them who else could defeat Trump that is running right now. Ask them what are our other options. They’ll do their best to bullshit through responses, but at the end of the day-
They know we have none.
Ask them how they’re support a free Palestine, while being able to see Trump suggesting Israel “finish the job” but that is somehow not enough to vote against him.
These people cannot answer any of these questions in good faith. I’ve asked them, and tons of others have. They distract and counter with bad faith bullshit. Then they disappear- only to reappear elsewhere with the same bullshit.
You cannot reason with, or inform to educate them. They know the facts. And they’re here to urge you not to vote against Trump anyway.
What does that tell you?
Support Joe Biden and ranked choice.
Until we know different, me too.
To be fair "He is in this race and I support him" is like saying "He's one of the candidates of all time". It is a milquetoast, borderline sarcastic endorsement.
It's what republicans do. Back your team. It's one of their best plays to win.
First- I actually really like seeing AOC not being one of those "burn the house down" politicians as I knew her when she started. It seems like she's learned what it takes to get a large group of people to do one thing, and outrage politics does not do that. Frankly this is the restraint I would look for in a future presidential nominee.
Second- at a base level I'm very for Biden stepping down and giving us the opportunity to escape this hellhole of an election cycle. John Stewart put it pretty well to the DNC- "Do you understand the opportunity you have here? Do you have any idea how thirsty Americans are for any hint of inspiration or leadership, and a release from this choice of a megalomaniac and a suffocating gerontocracy?"
I always look for reasonable takes from opposing viewpoints, and I did find American Historian Allan Lichtman's argument for why Biden stepping down would not be the best idea. Here's the 6 minute video of his 13 keys to the Whitehouse which has predicted 9 of the past 10 elections.
TL;DW:
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Party mandate: After the midterm elections, the incumbent party holds more seats in the U.S. House of Representatives than after the previous midterm elections.
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No primary contest: There is no serious contest for the incumbent party nomination.
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Incumbent seeking re-election: The incumbent party candidate is the sitting president.
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No third party: There is no significant third party or independent campaign.
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Strong short-term economy: The economy is not in recession during the election campaign.
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Strong long-term economy: Real per capita economic growth during the term equals or exceeds mean growth during the previous two terms.
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Major policy change: The incumbent administration affects major changes in national policy.
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No social unrest: There is no sustained social unrest during the term.
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No scandal: The incumbent administration is untainted by major scandal.
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No foreign/military failure: The incumbent administration suffers no major failure in foreign or military affairs.
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Major foreign/military success: The incumbent administration achieves a major success in foreign or military affairs.
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Charismatic incumbent: The incumbent party candidate is charismatic or a national hero.
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Uncharismatic challenger: The challenging party candidate is not charismatic or a national hero.
If 5 or fewer of these statements are False, then it is predicted that the incumbent will win. His take is that replacing Biden will do nothing but make point 2 & 3 turn from True statements to False statements, and increase the chances of Trump winning.
While crystal balls are everywhere and you could point to other political scientists who would say different, I was looking for a decent take on the counterpoint. I would also say that in political science, we like to have tools to help us make predictions so we can make actions. Just going on deep gut feeling won't cut it. Having a tool whose measurements don't always align with how you feel an outcome should be doesn't necessarily mean the tool is bad, it means it works independently from your biases. If you watch the video, I think he puts it well as the election is a thumbs up or thumbs down on the party more than it is the individual leader. It might be a helpful thought exercise to change the words "Trump" to "Republican" and "Biden" to "Democrat" when discussing the race as charisma and celebrity only goes so far in politics, but that's what we get caught up in the most.
Realistically, I’m not crazy about Biden, but if we wanted someone better we should have held primaries. Changing now is short sighted and won’t get us a more progressive candidate.
All we’ll get now is someone further to the right of Biden. It won’t be the electorate choosing a new Democratic nominee, it will be party insiders who choose someone even more out of touch than Biden.
but if we wanted someone better we should have held primaries.
Bruh ....
Biden and the DNC is why we didn't have a primary...
They're the ones that prevented the primary. They're the ones that decide if it's Biden. And they're the ones that would get to replace him.
They're the fucking problem, why act like voters have any say in the process?
oh my god, you're right! i totally forgot to schedule the primaries this year, sorry!
Do you think "we" as voters didn't want a primary? It's party insiders the whole way. And if you vote for Biden anyways, you're saying "yeah, i liked how this worked just fine." DNC screwed bernie twice, and RFK, Marianne, and Dean this time. Regardless of who you would back ultimately, the DNC removes all democracy from the process then says they're saving democracy.
I would rather have a Muppet for a President than white trash like Trump.
Fuck Trump. But also, I think with divisions the way they are, we have to be careful how we engage with our criticisms. And my problem with calling Trump "white trash" is layered. First, white trash has classically been used to denigrate lower class white folks. There's more to unpack there than I want to tackle, but to oversimplify, I feel like it is unnecessarily classist and brings in race at the same time. I'm sure there are plenty of people who you could call white trash that aren't racist, traitorous, scam artists. Also, I would consider Trump either not lower class, or a class traitor. And on top of that, it kind of seems like the least concerning thing about him. Him being cringe or gross or just generally repugnant is so 2016. We're now in the midst of several global catastrophes that this animated blob of greed and hatred will almost certainly pour rocketfuel on.
I think a lot of people are overthinking this. She's supporting Biden because as of today the battle is "over"
https://www.axios.com/2024/07/09/biden-house-democrats-withdraw-nominee
No use falling on swords anymore, apparently.
This is going to be awful though, as Biden is going to get demolished in another debate, and it'll look terrible if he refuses.
Fuckos took the worst possible shot of AOC into the article. IDK what's this mediaite site is, but they seem to present her position as stupid.
Look at how Donald is presented even in articles he's criticized in.
Yeah the bias is immediately obvious, it's not even their photo so they very deliberately chose this
She is becoming mama bear sooner that I ever thought possible.