this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024
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[–] GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip 88 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I mean, some cash is nice but the reason people don’t have kids is

  • a bleak future in the face of a collapsing ecosystem
  • late stage capitalism forcing people to work all day just to be able to afford existing
  • degrading childcare infrastructure amidst missing teachers, preschool educators, daycare workers, etc. And a general social climate hostile to raising children
  • and lastly of course the crippling loneliness epidemic, leaving many people (particularly men) unable to find partners
[–] Olhonestjim@lemmy.world 23 points 8 months ago (2 children)

All that, but sure, those little green pieces of paper ought to do the trick.

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 52 points 8 months ago

Gen Y/Z: we require legitimate action on climate change, ecocide, housing security and affordability, wealth inequality, economic mobility, work/life balance, social welfare, education, healthcare, greedflation, monopolies!

Capitalism: We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas... How about a pizza party?

[–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 8 months ago (1 children)

75K is not nearly enough little papers to raise a child.

[–] Olhonestjim@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Far from it. And such a pittance does nothing to alleviate the horrors of existence on that list.

[–] ironhydroxide@sh.itjust.works 79 points 8 months ago (3 children)

"South Korean President Yoon Suk Yeol on February 13 ordered his administration to develop tax incentives and subsidies for companies that encourage their employees to have children."

This seems fishy to me.

Why not develop tax incentives and subsidies for the parents directly, instead of giving companies another loophole?

[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 54 points 8 months ago (2 children)

South Korea is run by a handful of enormous family owned companies. This is probably related to the fertility rate.

[–] Rayspekt@kbin.social 29 points 8 months ago

Small FYI: Those are named "Chaebol" in South Korea, if anyone want's to look further into this.

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[–] deegeese@sopuli.xyz 37 points 8 months ago

What?

And abandon their system of government, corporate feudalism?

[–] doctorcrimson@lemmy.today 2 points 8 months ago

TBH I knew it was going to be something like this from the headline alone. Plutocrats never roll out this kind of thing without it somehow ending up in the hands of people who need it the least. Just like the USA's Paycheck Protection Loans.

[–] magnetosphere@kbin.social 32 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

$75,000 for ONE child seems almost reasonable. $22,400 is a fucking joke.

[–] scytale@lemm.ee 12 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Even 75k seems small for one child. I would expect an amount enough to support a kid until they are 18.

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[–] stoly@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

You’re going to spend minimum $350,000 on that child.

[–] chatokun@lemmy.dbzer0.com 31 points 8 months ago (2 children)

My sister lived in S Korea a few years ago, and keeps up on some stuff. She mentioned the feminist 4B movement. Quoting an article:

4B is shorthand for four Korean words that all start with bi-, or “no”: The first no, bihon, is the refusal of heterosexual marriage. Bichulsan is the refusal of childbirth, biyeonae is saying no to dating, and bisekseu is the rejection of heterosexual sexual relationships. It is both an ideological stance and a lifestyle, and many women I spoke to extend their boycott to nearly all the men in their lives, including distancing themselves from male friends.

So some of this might be the movement, which is against the patriarchal society Asian countries are famous for (and part of why so many weeb incels want Asian "submissive" wives). Has my respect too. Iirc some men have been violently attacking women over it, bur I can't find a link in the limited time I have atm.

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[–] jeena@jemmy.jeena.net 27 points 8 months ago (2 children)

But because my son got my German citizenship he get's nothing, even though both his parents pay huge amount of taxes. We even need to pay for the Kindergarten out of pocket, which just so became quite more expensive too.

But to be honest, I don't want him to grow up here in Korea with all the pressure and the bleak outlook into the future where one worker will need to pay for one retired person too, especially for all the retieries who didn't have children for whatever reason.

[–] Rayspekt@kbin.social 27 points 8 months ago (1 children)

all the retieries who didn’t have children for whatever reason

Could be that the grind at work doesn't leave any space for having a familiy.

[–] jeena@jemmy.jeena.net 2 points 8 months ago

Sure, I said for whatever reason, valid reasons or invalid. That doesn't change that it will get worse for the next generation.

[–] ironhydroxide@sh.itjust.works 20 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Your last sentence just put a different spin on the "it takes a village" quote that I constantly hear from parents.

It takes a village to raise a child. But it also takes a village to care for the elderly.

What happens when that village is no longer cooperating?

[–] stoly@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

That’s why the Silent Generation created industrialized elder care. Nothing like a hospital setting to help with the old dementia.

[–] Mango@lemmy.world 21 points 8 months ago (12 children)

You couldn't pay me a million to make another being have to live on this planet.

[–] Grass@sh.itjust.works 4 points 8 months ago

It probably takes a lot more than that to keep them alive long enough for society to crush any means their ancestors had of supporting themselves.

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[–] PeterPoopshit@lemmy.world 20 points 8 months ago (2 children)

If I were offered $75k to have 1 kid, I'd still have to turn it down.

[–] MeanEYE@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Especially considering it takes far more money and time to raise one.

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[–] Zippit@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

It's not enough, the math doesn't make sense. 18 years of foods, diapers, creches, outings, gifts, hobbies, clothes, housing and education? Just to produce a another slave for profit? Nope. Get kittens or puppies if you can afford them. If not, look at pics.

[–] Harpsist@lemmy.world 18 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Maybe not be so openly racist south Korea.

Everyone I know that's gone to work that has told me of the openly - although polite - racism that takes place there.

Wanna go this tat club with you south Korean friend? Oh sorry you can't because your not native.

Fall in love with a local? Hope you plan on moving outta the country because everyone will hate the both of you.

Nope. Did it to themselves.

Think I read somewhere they are the most pure race anywhere in the world.

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[–] anakin78z@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Stupid question, but why not just target more immigration? It's not like there aren't enough people in the world. Having babies first taxes the economy, then eventually helps it. Letting immigrants in now helps now. And they'll probably have babies.

[–] jeena@jemmy.jeena.net 14 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Korea is absolutely not prepared for any kind of immigration. And they've been isolated for so long they really don't know hor to deal with people who aren't from their culture.

[–] doctorcrimson@lemmy.today 6 points 8 months ago

All the more reason to force them to fix their shit.

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[–] doctorcrimson@lemmy.today 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The reason they don't do that is Racism. Almost every modern nation with population decline has racist anti-immigration policies.

[–] Cyberjin@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I think immigration is a short term fix Comes with a lot issues like language/culture barrier, they can't join stuff like the army.

They might not even have babies, like the rest. Also there is a higher chance of leaving the country.

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[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

Bring Koreans to Mexico and South America!

They love anything Asian and we are totally unaware of anything related to historical disputes of all kinds. So we would probably grow really cool hybrids...Mexikoreans or Korexicans. I didn't know, but most Koreans I know are tall people. I always assumed all Asian people were short, but that is certainly not the case. So tall people in Mexico do get an advantage.

[–] mathemachristian@lemm.ee 12 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Amazing to see marxist theory in action like that. It's so on the nose too, if that was in a novel it would look rather shoehorned in.

[–] megane_kun@lemm.ee 16 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I was like "(companies) paying parents to have children" belongs to a caricature of capitalism, but here we are. (My bad, it's companies paying parents to have children, and not some bigger entity, like the government. I already edited the previous sentence for clarity.)

If you don't mind me asking though, what "marxist theory in action" do you see in this article?

[–] mathemachristian@lemm.ee 15 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

In this case that the cost of replacement of labor power factors in to the wage a company has to pay in order to maintain production.

The manufacturer who calculates his cost of production and, in accordance with it, the price of the product, takes into account the wear and tear of the instruments of labour. If a machine costs him, for example, 1,000 shillings, and this machine is used up in 10 years, he adds 100 shillings annually to the price of the commodities, in order to be able after 10 years to replace the worn-out machine with a new one. In the same manner, the cost of production of simple labour-power must include the cost of propagation, by means of which the race of workers is enabled to multiply itself, and to replace worn-out workers with new ones. The wear and tear of the worker, therefore, is calculated in the same manner as the wear and tear of the machine.

https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Library:Wage_labour_and_capital

edit: replaced quote with an imo more fitting quote from the same book.

[–] PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

One of the most frustrating things about academic Marxism is that it hypothesizes that “capitalists” (whom they bung together with remarkable aplomb) do things like figure in the reproduction cost of labor. They don’t. They’re focused on the next quarter and maybe the next year. Maybe even the next five years. But no one ranging from Elon Musk to (not sure who his opposite would be so I’m kinda taking a stab here) Warren Buffett is thinking in terms of generational replacement. First, they’re not going to live that long. Neither are their shareholders. Plus capital is mobile - it’ll just go someplace else.

This is a headline precisely because it’s a man bites dog story. If your company gives you paid parental leave it’s either because it’s legally required or for retention. It’s not in the hope that the little toy will become a software engineer at the company in 25 years.

[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago

Finally somebody listened to me. JFC you have to pay people to have and raise kids, it's stupidly expensive.

[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Hey Canada. This is what people want if you want us to breed.

[–] Croquette@sh.itjust.works 12 points 8 months ago

Why add the company middleman? Just pay the parents directly.

[–] N_Crow@leminal.space 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

I'd be willing to migrate as a skilled worker to some first world country desperate for tax payers and people who aren't too socially repressed to have a family.

But... naaah, I'm a dirty foreigner. What do I know? I'm sure they'll figure it out.

[–] BirdyBoogleBop@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Would you want to work in a country that is known to have such a shitty work life balance that people aren't having children because of it?

[–] N_Crow@leminal.space 3 points 8 months ago

I wasn't even going to touch that. But yeah... Japan is kind of the same thing, I think China is going to start trying to get migrants desperately in the next couple of decades because of the one child policy working too well. But if they are kind of assholes about it, being racist and making life very hard to settle, what's the point then?

[–] c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Idk about Korea but here it's mostly because you can't afford to. I could barely support myself and someone else (most of that cost would be rent which wouldnt even change, either) before bringing children (whole bunch of new costs) into the mix.

I work a skilled job with half a decade of experience, and am in the correct salary range for the area, as well.

[–] N_Crow@leminal.space 2 points 8 months ago

Yeah. I'm being sarcastic but I know it's not that simple.

[–] Flumpkin@slrpnk.net 3 points 8 months ago

Vouchers for babies lol

How are the social laws in Korea for this? Like parental leave, healthcare, government support for kindergarten and schools, housing?

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 3 points 8 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


A South Korean firm is offering employees up to $75,000 to have children and help lift the country's ailing birth rate.

The announcement comes after Booyoung Group, a construction firm based in Seoul, earlier this month declared it would give a $75,000 per-child bonus to employees who have babies, CNN reported.

The company's employees have collectively had at least 70 children since 2021, so the firm is on the hook to disburse $5.25 million in cash to its workers, per CNN.

Like in China and Japan, South Korea's aging and increasingly imbalanced population means there could be a surge in retired older people who require medical care while the country's supply of younger workers dwindles.

South Korean President Yoon Suk Yeol on February 13 ordered his administration to develop tax incentives and subsidies for companies that encourage their employees to have children.

In Seoul, municipal authorities are giving $750 every month to parents who have children until their babies turn one year old.


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