this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2024
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Whose responsibility is it to protect unhoused when it's freezing outside? An Ohio pastor opened his church to the homeless and was charged by city.

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[–] solrize@lemmy.world 117 points 7 months ago (7 children)

Ambiguous title. The pastor didn't ask for money from the freezing people. He took them in for free. The city then criminally charged him for violating zoning rules:

Chris Avell, pastor of Dad's Place in Bryan, Ohio, was arraigned in court last Thursday because he kept his church open 24/7 to provide warmth to the unhoused.

Ohio law prohibits residential use in first-floor buildings in a business district. Since the church is zoned as a Central Business, the building is restricted from allowing people to eat or sleep on the property.

[–] damnthefilibuster@lemmy.world 147 points 7 months ago (4 children)

I dunno. It seems pretty clear that charged in this case means the government sicced the dogs on him for being a… checks notes… good Christian.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 92 points 7 months ago (1 children)

No wonder we have so many Bad Christians when the good ones are punished for their deeds.

This is what the gospel of Jesus meant that the life of a true Christian was the hardest.

The people who actually follow the gospel are generally vilified by the majority of Christians for making the rest of them look bad or something.

[–] ThePyroPython@lemmy.world 21 points 7 months ago

If these people get angry at someone performing a good deed because that makes then look bad, they're going to hell.

If even the least absolutist christian sect, the church of England, teaches that as they did to me during my childhood, then those fuckers aren't even close to being Christian. They're just wearing a crucifix.

Fucking posers.

[–] OpenStars@startrek.website 16 points 7 months ago

Hey now, since when does being a good Christian mean... checks notes... taking care of the oppressed, hungry & needy? Oh, well shit. :-P

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[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 65 points 7 months ago (1 children)

criminally charged him for violating zoning rules

Well fuck'em.

If its criminal to do the right thing for your fellow humans, do crime.

[–] Pat_Riot@lemmy.today 3 points 7 months ago

I believe it was Marcus Garvey that said all immoral laws must be disobeyed.

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 50 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

So by this logic church patrons would have to leave the premises to eat a snack, participate in a church meal, or even eat one of those wafers they sometimes hand out.

[–] TheLight@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 7 months ago (5 children)

Yup. Serve the body of Christ? Straight to jail. Your sermon is so boring someone dozes off, believe it or not, jail.

Of course, this doesn't really happen, through the magic of selective enforcement the only people getting the boot are those preventing the homeless from freezing to death, ruining the plans of the local administration.

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[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 25 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yet another evil created by zoning laws.

[–] dan1101@lemm.ee 5 points 7 months ago (5 children)

I don't know, we don't want a shooting range next to a preschool or something. Zoning does some good.

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 26 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Since when did we care about children getting shot at school?

[–] pm_me_titties@lemmynsfw.com 11 points 7 months ago

Zoning is there to prevent wasting those targets by accident /s

[–] DAMunzy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Oh come on. This is absolutely a government overreach.. yes, regulations can be good. They were not in this case.

[–] LillyPip@lemmy.ca 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Maybe I’m misunderstanding the situation, but it seems to me the problem here isn’t the zoning laws, but draconian enforcement during an emergency.

Usually in times of hardship, anyone with half a brain knows not to strictly enforce laws like this that were clearly not intended to stop churches, businesses, or private individuals from helping people.

It’s like charging someone for violating zoning by taking in neighbours whose homes were destroyed. In normal times, there are laws against turning yourself into a boarding house without a permit, but nobody reasonable would enforce that after a tornado.

The problem is moronic enforcement.

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[–] PapaStevesy@midwest.social 21 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If it's a business, why don't they pay taxes?

[–] Substance_P@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Yep, and what boundaries constitutes a church, synagogue, mosque or place of worship these days, and why is one religion tax free, yet a philosophical movement is not? To whom is respon$ible for making these institutions exempt of taxation? I for one would be a proud supporter of a church that actually upholds the tenants of biblical teachings, and also follows in the footsteps of those morals, but it's all just a sad sad part of modern day capitalism. This Pastor is a hero and should be heralded as such.

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Not that I particularly care if churches are or are not taxed but arguing that religion is philosophy just is empirically wrong. Philosophy is rarely passed generation to generation but religion is almost always is. No one would call an 8 year old a Hegellian but they would grasp the idea that the 8 year old is Muslim and should be given hallel food. A Marxist solider who dies in combat isn't going to get a Marxist funeral. A Platoist is not going to request a Platoist leader to provide them comfort in their final moments. No one is bringing their family to weekly Russellian services where they sing about the glory of set theory. No desperate person has begged their local Utilitarian thinker to pray away the Utility Monster.

I am an atheist btw so don't try it.

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[–] maness300@lemmy.world 20 points 7 months ago (1 children)

he building is restricted from allowing people to eat or sleep on the property.

Okay... so any business in the 'business district' is restricted from allowing people to eat or sleep on their property.

If I was a lawyer, I'd record people eating in their business district buildings and present that to the court right next to the law that says they're not allowed to do it.

I would fight tooth and nail to ensure whatever judicial overreach is screwing over poor people also screws over rich ones.

[–] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 7 points 7 months ago

No eating in the business district means no break rooms. And if Christian churches are in the business district, I’d imagine this means no communion wafers either.

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[–] prole@sh.itjust.works 78 points 7 months ago (6 children)

And here I was told that the government doesn't need to take care of these things because churches and charities will pick up the slack...

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[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 68 points 7 months ago

The unhoused are supposed to die quietly, he got in the way of that.

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 66 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

If this goes to a jury trial, everyone on that jury should fucking nullify.

If you don't know, jury nullification is an implicit property of jury trials. The court can't make you show your work or tell you that your verdict is wrong, so you can give any answer you want. That means if someone is up for something you think is bullshit, like helping the homeless or enjoying marijuana in their backyard, you can just say Not Guilty. The court can't do shit to you so long as you don't scream "NULLIFIED FUCKERS" as you're doing it.

That said, everyone involved in pushing these charges along should probably be voted out of office or run out of town. They're trying to kill people, just slowly and via exposure.

[–] ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world 31 points 7 months ago (1 children)

They’re trying to kill people, just slowly and via exposure.

Yes, that's part of it. But what they really want is to scare the rest, for you and me and everyone else to see these headlines and feel what we're feeling.

Every single one of these headlines where big government brings down its full weight onto people that help others, everyone from this pastor to people who leave water in the desert to people who help ladies get abortions to even a single miscarriage that they know will offend sensibilities (Brittany Watts), are psychological pre-enforcement for an authoritarian government.

Every single one screams: step out of line with society, and look what will happen to you too.

It's two birds with one stone. Clearing out the visible proof of their own inhumanity and raging mismanagement of this country's wealth and power by letting the poor and unhoused freeze to death is only one part of it; they absolutely want that message to hang out there, unacknowledged in the freezing air, of what happens to people when they fall out of favor with society's masters.

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[–] maness300@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

DAs are fully aware of juror's ability to exonerate defendants just because they don't agree with the law.

It's unlikely something like this would go to court unless the community has some massive hate-boner for the homeless.

All it takes is 1 person to vote not guilty and all the effort has been wasted getting a conviction.

[–] sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz 53 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Some heartless bastard abusing the regulations. I'm sure there are good reasons for those regulations being in place, but if they are going to abuse people like this with them, something is very, very wrong. At the absolute least don't enforce those laws when the weather is deadly, and best pass a new ordinance suspending those laws/regulations during deadly weather. Too many of us have absolutely zero empathy for our fellow humans.

[–] AFaithfulNihilist@lemmy.world 21 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'm not sure that those regulations are there for a good reason. I'm sure that those regulations are there because somebody wanted them and this is not an unintended consequence of them.

In fact I'm almost certain that the abusive anti-human use of this law is something dreamed up when the law was first penned to paper.

[–] HarkMahlberg@kbin.social 3 points 7 months ago

"not a bug but a feature"

[–] EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 50 points 7 months ago (12 children)

I hate this god damn country so fucking much.

[–] OpenStars@startrek.website 22 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Don't lose heart - it's not all this way.

But yeah, we can't hold out faith in it any longer either :-(.

Fwiw, did you notice the silver lining? Pastor willing to go to jail (or whatever, I haven't read the details that closely yet, but let's presume - anyway it's likely true) rather than give up on his beliefs. He will die on this hill, so that they do not have to:-D. Yeah, fuck the system that made him do it, but still it's quite inspiring that people like him exist that will fight against it:-).

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

It is. It throws me a bit sometimes. So used to seeing religion being nothing more than a tool of the powerful against the weak aligned with the government against us. The government makes our life hell, the shamans teach us that it can't be otherwise.

And then once in a rate while a religious leader puts themselves in harm's way for someone else and I don't know what to make of it. How can you spend 99,999 being awful and 1 day being good? Makes no sense.

[–] OpenStars@startrek.website 4 points 7 months ago

Shaman is a good word there - like the ancient Incan and Mayan civilizations, that kept the power of the oligarchy in check by having a... second oligarchy, side-by-side with it. If the king ever didn't like a priest they could kill them, while if a priest didn't like the king they could demand a human sacrifice "at random" of their son/daughter - so checks & balances. It is one of those "neat tricks" that evolution uses, to keep the masses in check underneath the authority of a few. And quite frankly it even makes sense - why train every single peasant farmer how to use a sword & read & such, if you can have 1,000 peasants just doing their illiterate thing in the fields, for every one child that you put a TON of effort into being able to do so much more? (or I guess rather, do differently / higher - like learning sword fighting is an enormous investment of training & skill)

That said, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this preacher guy is probably a genuinely good dude? I mean like 24/7 or at least more than half the day, or at least more than 1/100,000 as you mentioned? Okay I still haven't even read the article tbh, but religion has no monopoly at all on evil - like the Catholic church isn't the only entity in the news lately for diddling children, Epstein and others do that just as often if not more so; though crucially, less hypocritically so.

I'm even going to say something a bit unpopular here: 100 years or so from now, there will be dumb atheists. Right now most atheists are "first-generation" in the sense that someone chooses their own views, even if their parents also held identical views. e.g. the vast majority of atheists today know what the word "agnosticism" means, and has made a decision which one they are. But eventually, it will become fashionable, and stupid people will not do the questioning part, and instead just go ahead and say it simply to fit in, b/c it's what they've heard others do (that's another fantastic "good trick" used extremely often by evolution - it takes a lot less effort to accomplish mimicry than to do the whole entire Real Deal, e.g. a butterfly's wings that look like another set of eyes).

Anyway, whether the guy believes in God or not, it's awesome that he helped out the homeless.:-) Even if other Christians might not have done the same - although popular stories lately aside, Jesus Himself was quite adamant that this kind of thing MUST be done, by anyone who would call themselves one of his followers. e.g. Matthew 25:34-40, tldr: "whatever you do to the least person, it's like you did it directly to me".

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[–] maness300@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Eh, it's really a cultural problem among the people in it.

Anyone who thinks the disparity in wealth should grow instead of shrink is part of the problem.

Greed is something democrats and republicans can routinely unite on because they're both in on it.

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[–] BeautifulMind@lemmy.world 34 points 7 months ago

When doing the right thing, or even doing right by your conscience, is a crime... you live in a place and time in which politicians haven't been tarred or feathered and run out of town on a rail in too long

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 19 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I am really confused here. Look where Milwaukee is in relation to Ohio. (For non USians, it's under the second E in Milwaukee.)

It's 262 miles from Milwaukee to the Ohio state line by car.

[–] theluckyone@lemmy.world 42 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Pastor is in Ohio.Hears reports of people dying in Milwaukee. Pastor offers shelter to people in Ohio. Pastor is charged.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 12 points 7 months ago
[–] sukhmel@programming.dev 9 points 7 months ago

Because he should've offered shelter to people in Milwaukee /s

The situation is abhorrent though, some Kafkaesque level of reality

[–] tweeks@feddit.nl 6 points 7 months ago

Didn't read your part for non USians so was searching on the left side of the chart. Still wanted to say thanks though for adding it :p

[–] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 10 points 7 months ago

The "pro-life" party strikes again

[–] arin@lemmy.world 10 points 7 months ago

Can they just charge the other pastors who 'play' with little boys?

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