Y'all remember when Congress tried to pass a bill that would have expedited these cases and given the justice department more resources so they could prosecute each on to the fullest extent of the law? And then Republicans blocked it.
this post was submitted on 07 Jan 2024
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A lot of good Reasons for the people to revolt, our part in climate catastrophe for private profit, economic servitude to capital concentrating extremists that have captured the government that was supposed to protect the people from them, etc.
Jim crow nostalgia/white nationalism wasn't one of them. They set back any positive change for a long time, because any form of resistance, like a general strike, will be conflated with their willfully ignorant racist asses.
Today I learned they hanged Mumford for less than what some of these people did.
Today I learned they hanged Mumford for less than what some of these people did.
The irony is, the Trumpers want to be able to deploy this style of harsh and unjust justice at will.
They were gleeful at the chance to do it on Jan 6th and those police officers that died, oh well, casualties of their war for freedum to do exactly that as they want. It would also be great to shut up the BLM, gays, climate scientists, drag queens, minorities, immigrants, and especially Democrats and progressives.
They would love to hang all of these "evil" people that kill babies and drink their blood. It's really terrifying what they are digesting inside their cult feedback loops when one begins to peel back the layers.
They are now more than a bunch of dolts being grifted, well there's still plenty of them being grifted without a doubt, but the issues still remain with their reality and what they hope to do to clean up the world and to simplify everything down.
The irony is, the Trumpers want to be able to deploy this style of harsh and unjust justice at will.
So do people here arguing for harsh sentences because they don't like them.
Mob Justice isn't justice regardless of who the mob is
That was during wartime and it was a court martial. Courts martial are still notoriously harsher than civil courts today.
The headline upsets me on its face, and without question fuck these traitorous cult members, but immediately I go to thoughts of "how much lighter?" and "how much does it compare to typical trials?"
Thank you for a level-headed critical thought about the article, rather than the rest of the trash in this comment section which is nearly universally just knee-jerk mindless outrage.
That being said, I would be curious, like you, how this compares to typical trials.
Also, as some allude to in the article, this is actually a good thing because it absolutely undercuts the maga cultist outrage that this is an out of control judiciary handing out excessive punishments to political prisoners. Not that the facts will get to them, but at least I have the facts to confirm it.
this is actually a good thing
No, I don't think it's a good thing that traitors got less than they deserved just so we can push back on an argument that magats don't care two shits about and will parrot on and on anyway.
No, I don’t think it’s a good thing that traitors got less than they deserved
The vast majority of people on J6 were idiots in a mob situation, not traitors.
As OP said, fuck all of them, but aggressive prosecution here is not the way you want the law to work, the same way there's no gain for imprisoning everyone who acted out of pocket during the Floyd protests.
You throw the book at the worst offenders, and you let people caught up in mob mentality off with a lesser sentence. That is justice working.
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I can't be sure, but from what little I've seen of judges in action, I would guess substantially... but perhaps not for the reason we think.
Yes lack of remorse is a major component to sentencing, but so are a few other things that I think work on 1/6 rioters' favor. Likelihood to reoffend is arguably low because 1/6 was uniquely stupid. Being told by a US president to commit the crime is arguably somewhat mitigating (to the person, not to the president). These crimes were committed in what ostensibly could (should) have been a peaceful protest that got out of hand, so judges might question the severity of premeditation. All of these are typically valid reasons to lighten up sentencing. And then there's a sadly invalid one that probably mattered - light-skinned people are sentenced lighter than dark-skinned ones, and most of the 1/6 protestors were white.
In aggregate, there is value to going hard on all the traitors. Of individual offenders, it might be a more difficult place for a judge to sit, for both good and terrible reasons. But importantly, there's a lot of argument that we're not looking at judges that thought 1/6 was "perfectly fine". Such a judge would more likely find an excuse to dismiss (with or without prejudice) if they think the case is moving towards prosecution. We have simply not seen a lot of that.
In aggregate, there is value to going hard on all the traitors.
I'll generally agree with your stance, but here I'd say there's also value in not going too hard on the traitors. There's a balance.
You go too hard ("fullest extent of the law") and you may inspire some people to say "hmm, that seemed overboard, maybe they have a point about the government oppressing them after all".
From what I've seen, almost half of the cases got real prison time, and the rest got probation or house arrest. Cherry picking a few cases and I think it's consistent with your expectation. A serial offender that helped organize and incited violence would generally get years in prison. Someone who just walked with the crowd as others actually did the initial breaking in, who did not seem to commit violence themselves, who did not steal or vandalize anything, for whom this is a first offense, that seemed genuinely sorry or at least afraid of what they had done, that is the sort of person that got probation. As much as folks might find their cause unjust and their actions unreasonable, I think if we calm down and take a breath that we can agree that the circumstances just make sense for probation for some of those folks.
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Traitors.
Weren't a lot of them installed by the GOP leading up to Trump's presidency? I know the GOP was pushing through a lot if confirmations when they had control of the senate.
That's been the GOP M.O. for a while, but according to the info presented in the article the Dem appointed judges have actually been slightly more lenient (sentenced less than what prosecution sought 92% of cases, against the Trump appointed 90%).
I'm sure there's more nuance to it if you look at it case by case, but it seems like across the board judges are handing out lenient sentences for Jan 6.
It's because the vast majority of offenders are first time offenders, and are unlikely to repeat their actions.
This is a good thing, and should happen a lot. Our criminal justice system is fucked up.
I'm not so sure about it in this particular case. I could see them all doing this again in 2024
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The article points out that there are not large differences in leniency between judges appointed by different presidents, ~~and that, if anything, judges appointed by Republicans are harsher~~.
and that, if anything, judges appointed by Republicans are harsher.
? I'm skimming the article but these passages seem to suggest the opposite:
Judges appointed by Trump have issued lesser sentences than prosecutors wanted at only a slightly higher rate than Obama appointees. Out of 173 cases, Trump appointees gave lighter sentences than the government requested in 156. Trump appointees agreed to the sentences recommended by prosecutors in 16 cases, while issuing a harsher sentence in one.
By contrast, judges appointed by President Bill Clinton have meted out the harshest sentences, yet they have still been more lenient than prosecutors recommended slightly more than half the time. George W. Bush appointed judges have issued lesser sentences than prosecutors sought in 50 out of 54 cases, or 92 percent, while judges appointed by Ronald Reagan issued more lenient sentences in 42 out of 68 cases, or 61 percent.
The most lenient individual judge handling January 6 cases was not appointed by Trump or Biden, but by George W. Bush. Judge John Bates, now on “senior” or semi-retired status, issued sentences more lenient than prosecutors sought in all 28 of the January 6 cases he handled, often turning down requests for prison time and letting defendants walk free.
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Do you know who else got lenient punishment despite attempting a coup...
I think he wrote a. book in prison that the current coup artist kept in his bedside table.
Just wait for when they let Trump off and run in Colorado and Maine despite the insurrection article. Should be interesting.
I am curious what they will let things off for. It is one thing to deny the term insurrection being accurate, it is another say he is immune to charges for trying to use fake electors. I think the denial of losing the election after even having an investigation come back hired by them and say it was legitimate, the fake electors and the multiple usages of the term fight with the constant we will give more information later is what adds up to the full grasp of it being undeniable that he intended to overthrow our system of government through stealing the election.
When they try to break it down into parts and minimize each, is what will assist them being able to deny terminology and make light of the situation.
Those rulings are just for the primaries in those states, not the general election. The RNC has already said they'll do something different in those states so he'll be the candidate, and on the ballot, in the general election
Remind me again what the Constitutional punishment for treason is?
A light wrist slapping. Bad boy! Get in timeout.
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Well, that'll teach them to ever try that again.
Perhaps the most surprising finding is that the judges appointed by President Joe Biden have been slightly more lenient than those appointed by former President Donald Trump. Biden appointees issued lighter sentences than prosecutors sought for January 6 defendants in 24 of the 26 cases they handled, or 92 percent, effectively tying with George W. Bush appointees as the most lenient. Judges appointed by Trump, meanwhile, have issued more lenient sentences in 90 percent of their cases.
Trump and his allies have repeatedly claimed that the federal judicial system has been unnecessarily punitive in its treatment of January 6 defendants, complaining that they are “political prisoners” who have been unfairly persecuted for trying to prevent the congressional certification of Biden’s 2020 election.
This was ABSOLUTELY the case in the fall of the Weimar Republic. One of the very notable things was that as political violence increased, punishment and severity of punishment of the left also dramatically increased. Meanwhile the fascists were often let off or given only a slap on the wrists. EXACTLY like Jan 6th.
Tolerance of the intolerant will get you, and everyone you loved killed. Never go easy on Nazis.
A short easy read: https://www.heraldnet.com/opinion/comment-excusing-violence-as-patriotic-has-proved-dangerous/
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This is the best summary I could come up with:
Federal judges handling the criminal cases of hundreds of people charged in connection with the January 6, 2021, insurrection at the U.S. Capitol have overwhelmingly issued sentences far more lenient than Justice Department prosecutors sought, an analysis by The Intercept reveals.
In 82 percent of the 719 January 6-related cases that have been resolved, and in which the defendants have either pleaded guilty or been convicted, judges have issued lighter sentences than federal prosecutors requested, the analysis of Justice Department data through December 4, 2023, shows.
Trump and his allies have repeatedly claimed that the federal judicial system has been unnecessarily punitive in its treatment of January 6 defendants, complaining that they are “political prisoners” who have been unfairly persecuted for trying to prevent the congressional certification of Biden’s 2020 election.
The January 6 defendants have been charged with a wide range of crimes, including low-level violations like disorderly conduct and unlawful entry that would be forgettable if they were not committed with the aim of derailing the peaceful transfer of power.
On his way to Washington, Minuta filmed a video of himself warning that “millions will die” in a looming civil war; just before the Capitol riot began, he and Meggs were part of a security detail for Trump adviser Roger Stone.
Judge John Bates, now on “senior” or semi-retired status, issued sentences more lenient than prosecutors sought in all 28 of the January 6 cases he handled, often turning down requests for prison time and letting defendants walk free.
The original article contains 3,829 words, the summary contains 251 words. Saved 93%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Stop doing that!
overwhelmingly issued sentences far more lenient than Justice Department prosecutors sought
This is not the same thing as leniency, really. Prosecutors request high, defense requests low, judge picks somewhere in the middle pretty often.
Cuz they're white
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