this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2023
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[–] donuts@kbin.social 125 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (19 children)

To be clear, staging militant attacks from a hospital is a war crime.
To make matters worse, it opens up the likelihood and justification of counter-attacks against that hospital and the people in it.

According to international humanitarian law (IHL), health establishments and units, including hospitals, should not be attacked. This protection extends to the wounded and sick as well as to medical staff and means of transport. The rule has few exceptions.

Specific protection of medical establishments and units (including hospitals) is the general rule under IHL. Therefore, specific protection to which hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used by a party to the conflict to commit, outside their humanitarian functions, an "act harmful to the enemy".

Medical establishments and units enjoy protection because of their function of providing care for the wounded and sick. When they are used to interfere directly or indirectly in military operations, and thereby cause harm to the enemy, the rationale for their specific protection is removed. This would be the case for example if a hospital is used as a base from which to launch an attack; as an observation post to transmit information of military value; as a weapons depot; as a center for liaison with fighting troops; or as a shelter for able-bodied combatants.

Source: The International Committee of the Red Cross

Nobody should beat around the bush here. Hamas are using injured civilians as a human shield to stage attacks, and in doing so they are inviting retaliation and suffering under well-establish terms of international law. There's not really any particular gray area here. It's horrible, it's unethical, it's criminal, and it's just plain wrong.

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[–] EndlessApollo@lemmy.world 40 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (15 children)

Has it seriously not occurred to zionists that there's a middle step between doing absolutely nothing and leveling the entire building? Send troops in there to liberate the hospital. A lot fewer innocents will die, and yea more IDF troops will die that way, but in what fucking universe is it preferable to murder civilians than to run a risky military operation? Even if Hamas kills a bunch of patients or doctors in retaliation there will surely be more survivors than if you just bomb the place. But nope, apparently Israeli lives are worth infinitely more than those of Palestinian civilians, so the best solution is to murder all Palestinians so they're not a "threat" to Israel

[–] trackcharlie@lemmynsfw.com 15 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (22 children)

No sane team lead would accept a mission like that. That's just asking for massive friendly casualties.

Kicking in doors has an extremely high death toll, especially if it's a known base, of course they're going to level it instead of committing a team that's definitely going to get blown up by ied's and killed in ambushes.

In order to effectively suppress and seize that hospital, you're asking that at least 100-200 friendlies die during the operation to take a building that's a known travel route to their tunnels which house thousands of hamas and related fighters and their kit. Given the level of failure of the intel community in Isreal right now, no one operations side is going to take their word that it's safe to send a team into that hospital.

It's a hospital when it's in operation, right now it's a terrorist base of operations SPECIFICALLY because it was a hospital.

See: https://ground.news/article/hamas-has-command-center-under-al-shifa-hospital-us-official-says

[–] EndlessApollo@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (8 children)

In otherwords you value the lives of 100-200 IDF soldiers over the lives of many more Palestinian civilians. Considering you probably think 12,000 Palestinian deaths is a proportionate response to 1,200 Israeli deaths that's no surprise

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[–] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

When your

best solution is to murder all Palestinians

...bombing hospitals, refugee camps, schools, and endless civilians is a good thing... and explains Israel's behaviour and rhetoric in a pretty straightforward way.

...of course, killing all those kids makes the question "why are Hamas bad" a bit awkward... I know! Saying it's bad to murder children is anti-semitic now - that's not an obvious, massive self-report!

I don't personally care to judge whether Israel or Hamas are worse - they're both monstrous, genocidal murderers, killing innocent civilians... But only one of them has the ability to actually deliver on their genocidal intentions, and they're making headway.

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[–] MeanEYE@lemmy.world 32 points 9 months ago (3 children)

It's comical how many Hamas-apologists there are on this site.

[–] theluckyone@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago (7 children)

It's not comical how many anti-Semitic and/or pro-genocide apologists are on Lemmy.

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[–] WashedOver@lemmy.ca 31 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Beyond these crazy and terrible events, I'm left wondering what the big picture end game was here? Was it to block Israel from normalizing relationships with neighbouring foes, or is it a part of a bigger play by foes of Israel to highlight the injustices from their point of view?

This sacrifice of the innocents on all sides is a terribly high price on humanity and how long an eye for an eye will take to play out in the generations to follow.

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 19 points 9 months ago

I don't know if there is an endgame. Just dogs chasing cars. I do know a lot of people have died.

[–] Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Doubt there was any goal or forethought past 'kill Israelis'

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[–] SCB@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago

Was it to block Israel from normalizing relationships with neighbouring foes

This was the goal of the October attacks, yes. This goal has failed, thus far.

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[–] BradleyUffner@lemmy.world 29 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (27 children)

Counter attacking with troops and killing the terrorist is a reasonable response.

Leveling the entire hospital and surrounding neighborhood with missiles is NOT.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Well it's a good thing they didn't do that, then. Israeli troops will be entering the hospital to get at the Hamas base within it

Edit: they entered last night

[–] Natanael@slrpnk.net 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

And then you look at reporting from doctors without borders about doctors being murdered by snipers indiscriminately

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[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 29 points 9 months ago (5 children)

funny how when Palestine makes a claim, Lemmy just eats it all up.

but when Israel releases footage and coordinates to support their claims, everyone is suddenly questioning.

[–] HurlingDurling@lemm.ee 21 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I guess it has to do with the enormous social media machine Israel has. I take both sides with a grain of salt tho

[–] 5BC2E7@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago

enormous compared to what? because I'm seeing so many hamas defenders in lemmy and they never concede basic facts. it looks like it's tiny and ineffectual compared with the hamas propagandists.

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[–] satan@r.nf 11 points 9 months ago (1 children)

People have hard time trusting a genocidal country with an incentive for its citizen to propagate its propaganda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act.IL

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 7 points 9 months ago

And you have easy time believing Hamas, the other side of this conflict? Seems a little naive if that's the case

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[–] paskalivichi@sh.itjust.works 16 points 9 months ago (15 children)

Not a good way to avoid having your hospitals bombed...

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[–] EndlessApollo@lemmy.world 16 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Uh oh, guess that means there's no choice but to level the entire place and kill every civilian in there :(

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[–] RichCaffeineFlavor@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

According to IDF forces, as reported in fourteenwordsnews.com, the evil terrorists did a cartoonishly convenient thing that justifies the worst atrocities we've been getting beat up in the news for

Graffiti was also found in the area that said "blacks rule"

[–] Silverseren@kbin.social 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Well, that's misleading. The article acts as if they're doing it from the hospital. They're firing from the road. There's nothing given in the article indicating they had anything to do with the hospital.

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 18 points 9 months ago (1 children)

In the footage the terrorist runs into the hospital's underground carpark

if anyone's interested in some further reading / contextual information on this article / conflict specifically (or conflict generally):

distinction & proportionality

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