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Hamas hides in civilian places. In return, Israel bombs said civilian places, killing everyone but mostly uninvolved innocent folks, most of those are children. And yet when they try to leave, Hamas won't let them, and Israel bombs the exit anyway.
I feel like these two guys are secretly allied to commit genocide or something.
And yes, I'm waiting for the downvotes to come in. I don't even care anymore. Just press the button.
I wonder if Hamas would exist if Israel treated the Palestinians well, giving them aid, food, water and the promise of a brighter future… including sovereignty of their borders.
Their origins go back to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, so they would probably exist as an Islamic extremist terrorist organization in some form regardless, but obviously it would be in a completely different context and they probably wouldn't have anything like the support that they have now.
Ant this is the thing no one is saying. Yes what they did was bad but I can understand why they exist. Freedom fighters or terrorist just depends on your point of view.
I wish I could give you more upvotes. This is the material reason for this conflict going back to British occupation.
Hamas might not exist, but unless you can travel back in time, that doesn't answer the question what to do about Hamas today.
Hamas is a terror organization, they've been in power in the Gaza strip for the last 17 years, they terrorize the Palestinian population in Gaza, and they desperately need the conflict to stay alive so they don't lose relevance.
As things are today, treating the Palestinians well, giving them aid, food, water and the promise of a brighter future is a direct threat to Hamas. That's absolutely not to say that those things shouldn't be done - it's just to say that these things pose a direct threat to Hamas's position of power in Gaza. That's why Hamas reroutes international help and keeps it from reaching the Palestinian population, why they stage terrorist attacks against Israel, why they torture and murder "collaborators," why they place their infrastructure in schools and mosques and hospitals, why they use Palestinians as human shields.
So lacking the option of traveling back in time and preventing the creation of Hamas, what should be done in a world where Hamas exists, has been in power for many years, and has no intention of ever ceasing its terrorism?
Hamas today could be a thing of the past, or as close to irrelevant as possible, if Israel would put in the effort to help Palestinians. Maybe help Palestinians realize that they could have a better chance with Israel than Hamas and that peace is possible.
This would take Israel being the "bigger man" to use a turn of phrase, but every chance they're presented with just like right now, they instead choose Zionism and indiscriminately murder civilians.
to be fair, Hamas would have been a thing of the Past is Netanyahu wasn't supporting them through direct money and a bit of targeting non-radical secular groups that stood for an alternative to Hamas.
Yes, Hamas was aided by the guy using them as an excuse to kill civilians
That's sounds good.
What would that look like?
As a reference: from 2014 to 2020, the UN spent $4.5 billion in Gaza. NGOs have poured in hundreds of millions, have opened schools, have financed hospitals, have distributed aid. USAID has spent billions of dollars, the European Union spent hundreds of millions of Euros just to put in reliable water infrastructure. Just recently, Israel agreed to open the borders to Gaza so a number of Palestinians could work in Israel and live in Gaza.
But Hamas has been intercepting foreign aid, has seized donated supplies, has interfered with aid workers, has used schools and hospitals financed by the UN and NGOs as terrorist headquarters, as weapons caches, as launching sites for missiles, as prisons and torture sites to hold, torture and murder opponents.
So what, specifically, would you suggest?
Palestinians who are Israeli citizens (20% of the population) seem to be doing quite well and are not murdering their neighbors or advocating genocide.
Shhhh, this is an inconvenient reality that the “anti-Israel folks no matter what happens” folks conveniently refuse to learn about. Granted the Christian Arab Israelis are way more chill about not murdering people or advocating genocide, but outside of college age Muslim brotherhood males, Arab Israelis are pretty fucking chill.
I wouldn't want to be those Palestinians living in Israel, for three days after the whole Hamas incursion happened they were getting shot openly in the street by radical Israelis, but that got about as much news coverage as the fact that Netanyahu actually aided Hamas for a long time in order to undermine the PAs ability to negotiate a two-state solution.
Remember the Palestinian diaspora? Half of the people in Gaza and the West Bank are descendants of people who fled/were expelled from Israel in 1948-1949. You can look up Benny Morris's four stage analysis for more details. Israel couldn't get a Jewish majority in Palestine, so they went for ethnic cleansing. Arab Israelis are the people they allowed to stay.
As mentioned above, Israel is not homogeneous. They want to have safety for their people, not ethnically cleanse Palestinian Arabs. 20% of Israeli citizens are Palestinian Arabs. Wanting to ethnically cleanse is more Hamas's thing, as they explicitly target Jews.
Right, because they were peaceful they have been treated differently than constantly hostile belligerents targeting and killing civilians for over 75 years. This conflict is about safety for Israel. Self-defense.
Yeah, they'll still exist I think, whether we like it or not. Regardless of how well Israel treats the Palestinians, Hamas still sees them as colonizers and wants them kicked out completely.
It's been 75 years since Israel existed as a state, they're completely accustomed to where they are now, so kicking them out and establishing a "new Jewish state" is simply gonna move the problem to a different location instead of fixing it. History repeats itself.
Isreal has been shown to have bombed targets that were completely civilian in nature with no reported Hamas activity.
If Hamas is in every bombed civilian home then we must deduce that it is one of the biggest armies in the world.
Yet, all I see are homemade rockets that can barely blow up a roof...
The zionists supporters claim that Hamas somehow survive the blasts and move on to other human sheilds.
So the blasts are ineffective then and only serve to kill bystanders?
well yes, but blame Hamas for hiding in the vast cave network while we target apartment buildings
Do you have any sources of this?
I do.
This article says that Israel shut off the electricity, not bomb purely civilian targets.
Did I miss that in the source?
That would be civilian infrastructure.
Your take is way more chill than the others I've seen that secretly support Hamas. You seem honest about the situation while others lean way too heavily on one side - which is scary to think that a rational position is a hot take nowadays.
When the only winning move is not to play: