this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2023
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[–] paintbucketholder@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

if Israel would put in the effort to help Palestinians

That's sounds good.

What would that look like?

As a reference: from 2014 to 2020, the UN spent $4.5 billion in Gaza. NGOs have poured in hundreds of millions, have opened schools, have financed hospitals, have distributed aid. USAID has spent billions of dollars, the European Union spent hundreds of millions of Euros just to put in reliable water infrastructure. Just recently, Israel agreed to open the borders to Gaza so a number of Palestinians could work in Israel and live in Gaza.

But Hamas has been intercepting foreign aid, has seized donated supplies, has interfered with aid workers, has used schools and hospitals financed by the UN and NGOs as terrorist headquarters, as weapons caches, as launching sites for missiles, as prisons and torture sites to hold, torture and murder opponents.

So what, specifically, would you suggest?

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What would that look like?

Not blockade the Gaza strip, for one. Israel killed Gaza's economy in 2006, keeps limiting the imports of basic goods and what we're seeing is the result. Hamas stopped rocket attacks for over a year (late 2012 to early 2014) when promised the lifting of the blockade as part of a ceasefire.

Gaza people are, by Israel's own admission, allowed fewer calories than they need to not starve to death.

[–] paintbucketholder@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not blockade the Gaza strip, for one.

How would that make Hamas go away?

Egypt and Israel are blockading the Gaza strip because it's under the control of a terrorist organization.

If the question is "how could Israel help the Palestinians in a way that would make the threat if Hamas disappear," how are you envisioning that this would happen if Israel ended the blockade?

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, the cause of the current state of rocket attacks is the blockade so there's that. Like I said before, Hamas stopped rocket attacks, and tried to police other groups doing the same, for over a year in compliance with the 2012 ceasefire. They stopped because Israel only slightly loosened the blockade, and didn't lift it as they'd originally promised. So that's how this would happen if Israel ended the blockade; Israel needs to sign another ceasefire and actually follow it.

[–] paintbucketholder@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And the cause for the blockade before 2012 was that Hamas seized power in the Gaza strip, murdered its political opponents, and instituted a reign of terror where elections were suspended indefinitely, dissent was impossible, and Palestinian "collaborators" were abducted, tortured, and murdered.

And the reason for the end of the ceasefire in 2014 was that Hamas abducted the teenagers, followed by Israel imprisoning 350 Palestinian militants, followed by Hamas launching rocket attacks against Israeli civilians from Gaza.

That's the problem, isn't it - whatever any side does in this conflict, it's easy to find justification for it if you only go back fast enough in history. There are more than 2000 years of history there, full of conflict between the various ethnic groups. If anyone wants to find justification for current atrocities, it's always easy to point to atrocities previously committed by the other side.

That said: do you really believe that Hamas wild simply cease its terrorism, its atrocities, its rocket attacks, kidnappings, torture, murder and simply decide to live in peace with Israel if the blockade were to be lifted tomorrow?

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social -2 points 1 year ago

And the cause for the blockade before 2012 was that Hamas seized power in the Gaza strip, murdered its political opponents, and instituted a reign of terror where elections were suspended indefinitely, dissent was impossible, and Palestinian “collaborators” were abducted, tortured, and murdered.

The blockade started in 2005. These events happened in 2006/2007.

And the reason for the end of the ceasefire in 2014 was that Hamas abducted the teenagers, followed by Israel imprisoning 350 Palestinian militants, followed by Hamas launching rocket attacks against Israeli civilians from Gaza.

The ceasefire ended without the blockade getting lifted. That's the crux of the issue. The 2008 and 2012 ceasefires were basically "you stop terrorism and we'll lift the blockade" What do you expect to happen when after that the blockade isn't lifted?

That said: do you really believe that Hamas wild simply cease its terrorism, its atrocities, its rocket attacks, kidnappings, torture, murder and simply decide to live in peace with Israel if the blockade were to be lifted tomorrow?

So like I said twice now, it happened before.