this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2023
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Work Reform
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A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.
Our Philosophies:
- All workers must be paid a living wage for their labor.
- Income inequality is the main cause of lower living standards.
- Workers must join together and fight back for what is rightfully theirs.
- We must not be divided and conquered. Workers gain the most when they focus on unifying issues.
Our Goals
- Higher wages for underpaid workers.
- Better worker representation, including but not limited to unions.
- Better and fewer working hours.
- Stimulating a massive wave of worker organizing in the United States and beyond.
- Organizing and supporting political causes and campaigns that put workers first.
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I would absolutely love to only work 32 hours a week instead of 40, 45 or 50.
I would also love four weeks vacation a year, full healthcare coverage and a unicorn in my backyard please.
Except for the unicorn, your last paragraph is my reality. Oh and it's five weeks vacation, actually. My wife even has six. Sick days not included. Those are all part of the universal health care we have.
38h work week btw. Rarely overtime.
I have 35 days on my current job but it's the first time. Normally it's been 30. I'm in Sweden.
And we don't work no 40 hours here. People come in around 9 and leave around 16 with an hour lunch break and a lot of talking and slacking during the day. This is in IT and it's been like that on every IT job I've ever had.
Nobody can or want to focus for 8 hours per day their entire lives, that's madness. We are humans. I usually focus for maybe 4 hours to get something done but I don't push myself to work more then necessary. My salary doesn't go up with more work produced.
EU?
It's like this in all Scandinavian countries.
6-7 weeks paid vacation.
Free healthcare (except dental. Also we still pay for prescription drugs, just not insane prices).
37 hours per week.
Almost equal parental leave (you're forced to take a month off work, paid of course, mothers a bit more, but then split is as you want).
And then keep in mind that we pay 40-60% taxes depending on income.
When we had our son, I had 2 weeks time off from work. HR sat me down and told me "by law, we can't fire you until you take one day over the 2 weeks of unpaid time off. You are so lucky! You used to get zero time off. I remember when we had our baby, I worked until midnight while my wife was in labor."
Then I was fired 3 months later for "subpar performance" and they noted I seemed fatigued and frequently forgot things. Like, no shit I had 3 hours of sleep per day for months.
We pay about 25-30% in taxes IIRC but health insurance bleeds you dry. We just incurred $4500 medical debt because my wife had to go to the hospital. $100,000 student loan debt. $35,000 child birthing costs, of which $8500 was out of pocket.
Yeah, all of those expenses would've been covered by the taxes where I live. Even the student debt - we get about $900 per month while studying and education is free.
Y'all need some democratic socialism
Sounds a whole lot like Norway, presuming their wife is 60+ years
Man that sounds so great. Currently work weeks are varying between 40,45 and 50. PM. I'm up to about 2 1/2 weeks vacation a year working for a small business. But at least they let me take it, unlike my friend who works at AWS who hasn't had a vacation in 5 years.
Family also pays $2400/month in health insurance payments, although 2/3 of that is covered by our employer. $6,000 deductible.
Apart from the mystical horse, those aren't fantastical things. France has a 35 hour work week, many countries have 4 weeks vacation as the norm, and most rich countries have full healthcare coverage. These are policy choices, not impossible dream worlds.
It's sad that over here in America people are conditioned to think they are fantastical things.
In Europe, 4 weeks is the absolute minimum, many countries have higher mandated minimums and people get often extra on top. There are many things wrong in Europe, but the vacation policy is decent.
Err, what is your main criticisms about Europe?
Regarding employment.
It's pretty much given that the pension system of many countries will collapse, so young people are paying into a system which they either won't be able to use or will be heavily disadvantaged. IMHO the pension system should be (at least partially) privatized, but it's of course too late, damage is done.
Income is taxed too heavily and wealth too little. These days it's pretty much impossible to buy a house for many families even though the population doesn't grow and new houses are being built. You can't amass wealth with work, only woth inheritance.
Some worker protection laws should be weakened, specifically laying off people is often pretty much impossible which makes people allocation inefficient and companies conservative.
The unicorn comment makes me think you're being a sarcastic ass.
The rest of your comment is 100% doable. At least, lots of other countries are doing it.
I was just kidding about the unicorn, as living in the US it seems just about as likely to get a unicorn as getting universal healthcare or vacation.
😅🦄
Anyway, my son loves unicorns and I grew up watching my little pony so whatever
Fair enough.
In France I work 32 hours, have 7 weeks holiday and awesome healthcare.
I have cows in place of a unicorn though.
Republicans have told me that there's no way the country can survive that
They lied.
I mean they have to raise the retirement age and had (are having?) Protests about it the whole year didn't they
"Have to"? That's obviously more than up for debate, especially considering how many people protested.
God forbid they consider increasing taxes for the rich instead.
It's 64, that's lower than the US has ever been
That's just because they are whining
I don’t know why you throw the unicorn in there as if the rest of your comment is some crazy idea. Most of Europe functions extremely well under the work conditions you described, why is America somehow incapable of having the quality of life our European cousins have?
Oh please. Would that ever work, besides the dozens of countries and corporations that have managed without issues?
Besides what would you do with the unicorn poop
Clean fuel for the furnace
Some organic fertilizer for the garden, of course!
The vacation period is a minimum standard in the EU.
In the UK minimum holiday entitlement is 28 days. I am always appalled at how badly the US allows it workers to be treated. I really wish the US would start thinking more about working to live and not living to work.
If people who are negatively affected by it would stop voting for people who make it a campaign promise to never offer these things, we can't get anywhere
Some of those things are possible. Why not try to get them?
How?
I asked our company owner, and such healthcare plans simply do not exist in the US.
I have basically this in the UK
I have 5 weeks vacation and universal health care. I'm just pushing for the 32 hrs now.
Fun fact: government-based healthcare of any sort is great for employers and employees, and results in more money for both
This assumes a "worst-case implementation" resulting in UK level taxes and just a change to who manages insurance/payment, and is true for both a public option and single-payer system.
It's depressing that you've been convinced that full healthcare coverage is as unrealistic as a unicorn in your backyard.