this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2023
3 points (54.8% liked)
Comradeship // Freechat
2115 readers
1 users here now
Talk about whatever, respecting the rules established by Lemmygrad. Failing to comply with the rules will grant you a few warnings, insisting on breaking them will grant you a beautiful shiny banwall.
A community for comrades to chat and talk about whatever doesn't fit other communities
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
But there's also no proof that god doesn't exist, so the actual materialist thing to do is to be agnostic
But humans ARE naturally spiritual, spirituality literally goes back tens of thousands of years, and maybe even longer. And this was before hierarchy existed.
that's not how proof works.
But we are talking about the beginning of the universe, something that we don't understand yet. So in that way the existence of god, and god not existing are both metaphysical explanations
I don't see how an event that took place billions of years ago has any bearing on human politics. Or why a gap in knowledge is the same as belief in divinity in your eyes.
I also don't believe that it has any bearing on politics. Thats my point. I believe spirituality and politics are two different domains.
Religion does have massive bearing on politics though.
I'm saying it doesn't have to be.
Can you try to name one religion that hasn’t influenced politics?
The point is religion doesn't have to influence politics
Suppose you’re genuinely a religious person without ulterior motives. If you believe at minimum that killing random citizens is wrong, shouldn’t you speak out against murder committed by your government? If you do, isn’t that getting into politics?
My point is that politics should remain secular. But that doesn't mean that ideas inspired by religion aren't allowed in politics, as long as they're not reactionary and have secular argumentation.
That’s a nice ideal. I certainly wouldn’t have any problems with religious comrades who think like that.
I would add that it needs to be in good faith. If a religious person were to argue against abortion, but proceed to oppose policies that make abortions a necessity, then you’re a hypocrite.
Are you saying your god is only as powerful as the gaps in human knowledge?
I'm not saying that, I don't believe in a god of the gaps. I'm just saying we don't know what's out there
I’ve come to believe that it’s extremely unlikely that it’s the Christian god though, and that even if it were, it sounds like the abusive dictator that the West accuses North Korea of being.
As an aside, do you also think it’s equally likely to be every one of the other ~10,000 gods humans have invented?
Well I don't necessarily believe in a god, but if there's a god, it's probably a monotheistic god, which is what most religious people believe. The case for polytheistic gods existing, who are the majority of the gods in your argument is pretty weak
Are you a deist then? There’s no practical difference between that and atheism IMHO. What real difference does it make if it turned out a time-traveling Pokémon created the universe if it just relaxes on another planet and demands nothing of anyone or anything?
You're right, it doesn't make a difference in that case.
Here’s a quote attributed to Marcus Aurelius:
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
Atheists are "agnostic". No one is saying "I'm certain god doesn't exist", we're saying "there's no evidence that one exists".
In that case christians who are open to the idea of being wrong are also agnostic. You could use agnostic as an adjective to atheism, but I believe agnostic, as a noun, is the way to be truly materialist
Do those exist?
Not all of them, but some do.
I feel like doubt is contrary to the whole idea of 'faith' but I'm not religious so what do I know.
Faith doesn't necessarily mean blind faith
That depends on what your religion is and what your questions are IMHO