Ask Lemmy

Mine is they shouldn't have made the sequel series without ~~George as a consultant~~ a plan

You want a HOT take on Star Wars?

I love it. All of it. Games, movies, shows. All. Of. It. Sure, I've got some critiques, but even the prequels/sequels are a thrill ride. I love Star Wars and I don't care about some dork on the internet's opinion on it.

At this point, Star Wars is just a setting. The reason Star Wars shows/movies continue to be so divisive is because people expect the tone/genre of their favorite piece of Star Wars content.

For example, expecting to like Acolyte because you liked Rogue One is ridiculous. They have almost nothing in common. You wouldn’t expect to like Dr Strange because you liked Dunkirk.

Just because it has a Star Wars brand on it doesn’t mean it will be anything like other things with the Star Wars brand. Expecting that will lead to disappointment.

The original trilogy was awesome because George Lucas did not have full creative control. The editors (Paul Hirsch, Marcia Lucas and Richard Chew) prevented a new hope from being a complete dumpster fire. The prequels had too much George Lucas, and the sequels had too much ... I dunno? Decisions by managers or something?

Anyway it seems The Mandalorian was awesome because it was a passion project by true OT fans. The franchise needs to wait for that type of project instead of just green lighting half hearted crap by folks trying to extract value out of star wars.

I know it's not a hot take but I'll rant.

who the hell had to make Rey a Palpatine and Palpatine not die. that wasn't epic, that was dumb af.

Darth jar jar would have been wayyy more compelling, funny, etc.

sometimes dead is bettah.

they could have gone a different route with snoke. he was the only compelling new guy and they made him the old guy. bahhh

Hot take? Obi-Wan doesn't need to be on the high ground, the high ground just needs to exist within the battle;

Obi-Wan knows that when he has the low ground, he really has the high ground, from a certain point of view; see Diagram A.

Look at his battle record:

Maul: Has low ground, wins Example A

Dooku: No high ground, loses

Dooku rematch: No high ground, loses Example B.

Greivous: Has low ground, wins Example C

Vader: Has high ground, wins

Vader rematch: No high ground, loses

Obi-Wan with the high/low ground is canonically the most powerful Jedi. This is fact. Had Yoda not denied his request to battle The Senate with typical Jedi arrogance, Obi-Wan could have defeated Palpatine in the Senate building, which housed a variety of different altitudes; this was designed so that the Chancellor could always have the moral high ground in political debates. But Obi-wan didn't fight The Senate, and Yoda soon learned that you can't cleave the Sheev in a normal 1v1. It took the Tusken Raiders years of conflict against Old Ben Kenobi to grasp his superiority in terrain advantage, as you see them visibly flee in ANH when they realize he holds the low (inverse-high) ground; this was the optimal strategy against a near-invincible opponent.

Yoda is shorter than virtually every other fighter, which gives him a permanent low-ground disadvantage; however, his saber-fighting style utilizes a flipping-heavy technique in order to negate this weakness for a temporary window. You'll notice that, after falling from the central podium in The Senate's building, he immediately retreats upon realizing he is on the lowest ground. You'll also notice that, while training Luke, he rides on him like a mount, to gain the intellectual high ground and accelerate Luke's training. Example D . Obi-Wan's defensive Form III lightsaber style synergizes with his careful military maneuvers; as he only strikes when prepared, he can always hold the strategic high ground. (The business on Cato Neimodia doesn't count.) You'll come to realize that this is why Commander Cody's artillery strike failed against Obi-Wan, when hundreds of Jedi were killed in similar attacks. Cody failed to grasp the strategic situation, as the Jedi Master's elevation was superior to his by hundreds of meters, making him virtually unkillable. (You'll notice that all the Jedi killed in Order 66 were on level ground with the clones, thereby assuring their demise.) Had Cody taken his time and engaged the Jedi on even terrain, he would have succeeded. Obi-Wan subsequently retreated under the surface of the lake, so that he could maintain the topographical low/high ground. This is why Obi-Wan is so willing to fight against impossible odds to the point where he thrusts himself in immediate danger; when your probability of victory is 1-to-10, you have the statistical (and therefore strategic) low ground, a numerical advantage when you use your point of view to flip the value to 10/1 . Almost losing is, in Obi-Wan's case, certain victory. (See Example E). In ANH, Vader proves his newfound mastery by engaging Obi on perfectly even ground. However, Obi-Wan intentionally sacrifices himself on the Death Star, so that he could train Luke from a higher plane of existence, thereby giving him the metaphysical high ground Example G.

Why was Vader so invested in the construction and maintenance of the Death Star? Because he knows Obi-wan can't have the high ground if there's no ground left. Image A. As seen through the events of the Clone Wars, Obi-Wan was known to be on friendly terms with Senator Organa, whose homeworld held large quantities of mountainous terrain, the perfect habitat for a Jedi Master. Grand Moff Tarkin was already in position to destroy Alderaan as a first target, as the distance from Scarif to Alderaan was too vast to reach between the escape and recapture of the Tantive IV, even at 1.0 lightspeed. Alderaan had been the initial target all along, as Obi-Wan with the high ground was the primary threat to the Death Star. How? Because a moon-sized space station would have some form of gravitational pull, thereby negating Obi-Wan's zero-gravity weakness; Obi-Wan with the perpetual high-ground in a low-orbit starfighter would easily be able to fire proton torpedoes through a ventilation shaft, although the Empire was uncertain of the specific weakness of the Death Star planted by Galen Erso (who was a good friend).

A common misconception is the idea of a 'prostrate position' version of the high ground, wherein Obi-Wan lies flat on his back, giving him tactical superiority from his point of view. However, this strategy is futile, as for the high ground to come into effect, there must be a differential between parties on both the x-axis and y-axis to a moderately significant variation from both absolutes (Angles only a Sith would deal in). For Obi-Wan's high ground powers to be in full effect, he must stand between 15 and 75 degrees (π/12 to 5π/12 radians) diagonal from his opponent(s) on any quadrant of the area circle; this has been dubbed the Trigonometric Perspective Diagram. (Diagram B). The total effect for conventional high ground advantage can be calculated via the MetaComm Equation, or f(x) = lim 0→x π/12 | 7π/12 5π/12 | 11π/12 Ʃ(x) (2tan(x) / 3sin(x) + (log10Δ)) * Φ

'x' refers to the angle of contact between the two parties on, with advantage being based purely on position on the Y-axis, as the vast majrity of force users base their perception on elevation rather than spacial relativity. Δ refers to distance (measured in meters) between units on the hypotenuse; distance has some effect in tactical advantage during typical skirmishes, but accurate values for Δ based on equipped weapon are not finalized. The power of gravitational force has great effect on the high ground; too weak, and the high ground holds no traction; too strong and the ground becomes the real enemy. Experimentation has proven that the high ground typically holds significant value between .8 and 1.4 β (Earth Gravity) with maximum impact standing roughly equal to 1.05. Pressure is equally important, as it is a surrounding force attached to gravity (the high ground has famously low impact in aquatic environments). Pressure(λ) is measured in pounds per square inch (psi), to be used as a gavity multiplier (or division if pressure is sub-atmospheric; a pressure of 0 would theoretically negate the high ground, due to the high ground not existing without gravity. This is merely speculation, however, as the gravity value still exists, thereby defining the high and low grounds). Φ (Surrounding Force) is a variable defined as β * 2.2λ , with no metric value assigned due to its singular application in the MetaComm equations.

In situations regarding Obi-Wan and his relativistic point of view, you must substitute the Quadrilateral MetaComm Equation (the Jedi Master function), f(x) = lim 0→x minmaxƩ (2tan(x) / 3sin(x) ) * (1.2)Φ [min = (|cos(x)| = 1) | (|sin(x)| = 1) + π/12 ), max = (|cos(x)| = 1) | (|sin(x)| = 1) + 5π/12 ]. The viable Φ field is expanded, as Obi-Wan has taken advantage of the high ground in so many different environments that he simply uses it more efficiently, and the min/max values apply due to his multidimensional point of view, evidenced by the Trigonometric Perspective Diagram. Additionally, the distance factor does not affect Obi-Wan, as spacetime can be perspectively compressed, giving him the ideal Δ value from his point of reference.

In conclusion, Obi-Wan abuses spatial relativity and Taoist doctrine in order to always invoke his high-ground powers. To properly analyze the strategic genius of Kenobi, one must hold advanced knowledge in Philosophy, Mathematics, and Calculus-based Physics, and be able to integrate these topics together. The impact of research in Obi-Wan's mastery of the high ground ranges from military purposes to spiritual nirvana, although progress moves slowly (but this is actually a benefit, as it gives academia plenty of opportunities to publish studies, thereby giving us the scholastic high ground.) Most importantly, if you find yourself standing on the low ground- don't try it.

The shouldn't have made a sequel trilogy without coming out with a plan

"disney trilogy bad" is a cold take. its not a hot take if every nerd on the planet agrees.

anyways the last jedi is the only good movie in the sequel trilogy. the people who didnt like it would rather watch a correct movie than a good one.

To tell any other story in the Star Wars universe, you must first retcon the Original Trilogy.

See, the Original Trilogy established that the "dark side" was a temptation for every Jedi. Like cocaine or meth for modern humans: addictive poison that gives a temporary rush of power.

That's great for the whole spiritual, mystic, two-wolves-within-you conflict Luke went through. His victory was overcoming his shortcomings in the form of fear and anger.

But it's actually terrible for any story made afterwards.

On the one hand, you can't now make a story where, "maybe the Jedi were excessively stoic." without also inadvertently making the argument that Luke was maybe... wrong?... to conquer his emotions? It undermines Luke's conflict.

On the other hand, you also can't make the Dark Side totally evil without flattening Vader's character. When Luke loses himself to fear in Episode 5 and to anger in Episode 6, he proves that the Dark Side doesn't sink its teeth into you and control you permanently after a single moment of weakness. Even after losing yourself to the Dark Side, you can still observe how it is hurting your loved ones and then choose to pull yourself out of it, conquering your fear and anger in order to protect them. Exactly as Luke does for Vader, and exactly as Vader does immediately after for Luke.

Which means Anakin was just... one-dimensional up until that point. Weak. Too simple to be a protagonist. He wakes up to find he's killed Padme, and yet still doesn't turn his life around and learn to fight the temptation of the Dark Side? He hunts down and kills Jedi who had nothing to do with his fall, and yet never looks into their eyes to realize he's fallen?

No matter how you look at it, it just... doesn't work.

That's why the prequels retconned the Jedi into something morally ambiguous. And why the sequels retconned them into a past that needed killing. It's why the Clone Wars animated series turned the Jedi into a bureaucratically anti-emotion order. And why a lot of video games added lore where the Jedi actually committed genocide against the Sith. It's also why pretty much none of these other media talk about the Dark Side in the same tone as the OT.

The second the OT ended, the Dark Side could no be longer a "temptation". It had to became a faction. An unjustly vilified piece of humanity. An ethnic group.

Because you can't have a "dark side" and have complicated, nuanced characters and extensive world-building: either A) the world will fall apart, B) the characters will be woefully inconsistent, or C) all of the above.

So every, single time you want to make new Star Wars media, you have to retcon the "Dark Side" essentially out of existence.

Star Wars is just a formulaic fantasy story with a sci-fi coat of paint on it. The original trilogy was groundbreaking because of the special effects, and the story was entertaining enough to not distract from that. The other six films in the main storyline bring nothing new to the table, and are thus boring cashgrabs.

The prequels should have started with the Clone Wars, covering more of Anakin and Obi-Wan's relationship, with an occasional flashback to the earlier Anakin to fill in his past. Being a fan from the early years, I didn't like the prequels that much initially, but the story grew on me after watching them a few more times later along with fan commentary over the years. What I do still think they suffer from is making Anakin's fall too sudden, and if we got a better sense of how much he and Obi-Wan were brothers in spirit, the eventual fall would mean more. There would also be more room to develop the friction he observes with the Jedi Council, maybe even take things to a new level in why they don't let him progress. I guess I basically see TPM as a wasted first part to better establish his character.

Luke Skywalker's story is a retelling of Nuada Airgetlám, the first king of the Tuatha de Dannan, in a sci-fi fantasy setting.

Because there is a cultural Zeitgeist about this even if it is not well known, it had a better well of mythology to pull from and therefore it had more impact than the sequels and prequels which were repulled from the saga of Luke Skywalker in the original trilogy.

I think the lack of depth for all of the movies since the original trilogy come from the fact that they do not tap into any other sources than their own source, leaving them all feeling hollow and sterile compared to the original.

The only good thing that came out of the prequels was the pod racing game on the Nintendo 64.

Before I begin - lightsabers are an awesome fantasy weapon and I would love to have one.

Lightsabers are a big reason that Star Wars is garbage.

Hardly any lightsaber fights in the OT, used by all of three people (4 if you count Han, which I don't). Once the prequel trilogy was made and special effects were cheaper and easier, lightsabers everywhere, and instead of a lightsaber fight being an old fashioned samurai duel where the story and the fight are enhancing each other, now it's just a spectacle. Has it been more than fifteen minutes since we saw a lightsaber? FSSH, vwoom.

Andor is regarded as one of the better pieces of Star Wars media - no lightsabers, no Jedi, just people versus the machine of the Empire.

Mandalorian S1 was straight fire. Then they introduced the Darksaber. Now nobody likes Mando anymore.

I'm not out to yuck anyone's yum. You can like bad movies, or movies that are big tentpole spectacles but aren't ever going to engage with you mentally. I went and saw Episode IX in theaters opening night and it was as entertaining as Hobbs and Shaw. My brain didn't get anything out of it and it was good to see Palpatine again because he was the only one in the movie that felt like a real person with, you know, motivation and stuff. But I left the theater and I don't really think about it (except for times like now) because it didn't engage with me mentally. There was nothing there.

Just lightsabers.

Endless lightsabers.

I'm not crazy about all the callbacks and remember-mes either (looking at you Rogue One, Boba Fett, Solo, etc), but that's a different rant.

The Star Wars universe is not interesting enough for all the TV show and movies being made. George Lucas is not Tolkien and the world building was fine enough for the original trilogy, but it’s simply too boring for more content. Tolkiens work gets more interesting as you learn more about the details. Star Wars is the opposite. The more information you get the less interesting it is.

Also the Jedis are just cops/soldiers. They are not inherently good.

There are no hot takes. Everything has been analyzed and discussed a thousand times. Everyone has their own opinion, but none of them are hot anymore.

My hot take, is that star wars pieces of media are only considered "good" if the viewer was too young to perceive the politics in the work when they first saw it. There are exceptions like rogue one/andor, but I think it mostly holds.

The prequels are alright if you look at them as displays for establishing world building rather than "normal" movies.

They could've cut JarJar, though.

I love the idea Kylo Ren. Unhinged man child who worships Vader for all the wrong reasons. His soldiers are afraid of him and work around him and pity him. I love having such a broken villain.

I loved when Rey's parents were nobodies.

I loved that Luke was a scared and broken. Should have felt crippling pity for that guard he force choked in a Jabba's palace. Still. I loved it.

And while I'm at it. Frozen. I wanted so desperately for Hans to be entirely sympathetic and just not in love will Anna. Movie is mostly the same until Anna gets back and needs the kiss to fix her and he tries and.... Nothing. Then. I dunno. Finish the movie some other way.

They should have had a trilogy story arc planned out before making the new movies made the directors play within that.

George Lucas's writing in the OT was atrocious.

Empire has never been beaten as a high point in the franchise and it can't be because SW is taken way too seriously now

It's boring and it sucks

Every discussion about the fall of the Jedi and the Republic proves that Star Wars fans don't know shit about Star Wars.

A New Hope would have only been moderately successful at best without the combination of David Prowse doing the physical work and James Earl Jones voicing Vader. Possibly a flop.

Yes, the rest of the cast was solid and it would have still been a good B movie without them, but the voice and physical presence of Vader set the tone of what the protagonists were fighting against. Vader isn't the best character either! In fact he is a one note villain in A New Hope.

The combination of both actors was the secret sauce that set the foundation for the entire series. Heck, Vader overshadowed Palpatine in their scenes together for me, even with Ian McDiarmid's excellent performance.

The first 2 prequels made me realize the only Star Wars movie I really loved was Empire. New Hope and Jedi (apart from the advanced in film making they pioneered) were good, not great.

I still haven't seen episodes 3, 8, or 9 and I feel no desire to ever do so.

It all fucking sucks ass except for empire and andor

Andor is the best thing to come out of the Star Wars franchise and I'm tired of pretending it isn't.

It should have stopped after the OT.

It wasn't very good and then got way worse. We could be forgiven for not knowing better when we were kids but that was 40 years ago.

Episode 8 is my favourite of the sequels, 7 was just boring 9 was, well it exists. The Prequels are not as bad as the many think.

Episode 5 is my favourite over all, but I don't think that's an hot take.

They shouldn’t have made the prequels. They were terrible and George fucked the legacy of Star Wars forever