this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2023
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[–] masquenox@lemmy.ml 130 points 1 year ago (60 children)

Modern-day fascists are desperate to distance themselves from the nazis, despite the fact that the nazis are literally their idols.

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[–] Bogrug@lemmy.world 94 points 1 year ago (3 children)
[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 84 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, that's literally their whole reasoning. I've had to deal with a number of those all the way back in 2014, "national sOcIaLiSm"

Of course, whenever I pointed to The Guardian's interview with Hitler in 1923 (and republished in 1932), where he energetically complains about marxists (marxians, as he calls them) "stealing" the socialist term from "real germans" and actively calls for the end of bolshevism, I was completely ignored.

"Why," I asked Hitler, "do you call yourself a National Socialist, since your party programme is the very antithesis of that commonly accredited to socialism?"

"Socialism," he retorted, putting down his cup of tea, pugnaciously, "is the science of dealing with the common weal. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists.

[–] hare_ware@pawb.social 16 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Wait, but what did he even mean by "socialism" here? I get call what was happening in Russia not socialism, but what was the un-Marxist form of socialism Hitler was talking about? Also, wasn't Marx also German, did Hitler see him as not a "real german"?

[–] jagot@programming.dev 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Marx was famously also Jewish.

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[–] Granixo@feddit.cl 64 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Democratic People's Republic of Korea entered the chat

[–] Gimly@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A country with republic and/or democratic in its official name is usually neither.

[–] dirkgentle@lemmy.ca 22 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Most republics afaik have "Republic" in their name. I don't think that's the problem.

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[–] youCanCallMeDragon@lemmy.world 43 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Most Americans have no idea what socialism is. You’re not supposed to think about it here. They just hear that socialism is bad and it’s in the name of the nazi party which is also bad, so that tracks.

[–] nightdice@feddit.de 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Most Americans think that "liberal" is someone on the left, while most European nations (as well as what little political theory I had) place them somewhere in the center, usually fiscally progressive but socially conservative.

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[–] Mostly_Gristle@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Most Americans don't know what capitalism is either. We've been so brainwashed into believing capitalism and simple commerce are the same thing that people think any system that isn't capitalism is some authoritarian hellscape where the government forces you at gunpoint to share your toothbrush with everyone else in the neighborhood because personal property will be outlawed somehow.

[–] LiamMayfair@lemmy.sdf.org 62 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Strawman aside, anyone who thinks national socialism has anything to do with socialism needs to seriously educate themselves on Nazi ideology. Socialism to Hitler was nothing more than a buzzword he used to boost approval rates and votes quickly

As soon as they came into power, the Nazis did a complete 180° and swept every single promise they had made under the rug, kicking out or straight up murdering anyone, even in their own party (e.g. Sturmabteilung), who may have genuinely believed the party's socialist façade.

Their socialist agenda was not the only falsehood the Nazis pushed though (surprising, I know!). The only three things the Nazis actually believed in were:

  • Hitler
  • Jews/Poles/anyone Hitler didn't like = kill
  • Germany is entitled to take what they want from anyone because Lebensraum
[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (12 children)

Unfortunately in the west we are heavily indoctrinated against socialism. Or even knowing what socialism is. While at the same time heavily apologist to groups and parties closely aligned to the Nazis and the fascists. A large group of Republican legislators and their wealthy friends wanted a fascist overthrow around the same time Hitler attempted his first coup. They were never punished nor was the party ever admonished or reformed. To this day the descendants of people likely involved are still in power.

[–] abraxas@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Socialism is when Democrats do things. Especially when they give things to people who aren't me. Doubly especially if they aren't white.

That's socialism. And Naziism.

(/s since Poe struck other people here already)

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[–] JayDee@lemmy.ml 21 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The kind of people who think the Nazis were socialists know neither what socialism is nor what Nazism is.

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[–] Holzkohlen@feddit.de 54 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Interestingly enough that is an American thing I believe. In Germany no one thinks the Nazis were socialists.

[–] FlixusFlexus@discuss.tchncs.de 19 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Oh boy, we have met different people

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[–] stratoscaster@lemmy.zip 52 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is the real issue with troll communities (and subreddits). The_Donald started out as a troll community, and it was effectively overrun with nutjobs.

Yes, satirizing these people is hilarious, but they're often too stupid to differentiate between ironic support and endorsement and actual agreement. These are the same people who routinely fall for The Onion articles.

Don't be surprised at the level of stupidity people are willing to duck under to confirm their own beliefs. Lol

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 47 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A wise man once said "Any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they're in good company."

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[–] evdo@lemmy.blahaj.zone 50 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's an argument made in bad faith and/or ignorance caused by same.

[–] 001100010010@lemmy.dbzer0.com 46 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Democracies and Republics are bad because Democratic People's Republic of Korea is proof that it's bad.

Reject Democracy! Back to Monarchy!

[–] mrginger@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You jest, but there are a lot code people who would like to see the US become a monarchy.

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[–] SeaJ@lemm.ee 36 points 1 year ago (7 children)

It was totally leftist...which is why small business owners backed them and other conservative parties formed government with them.

[–] Paradoxvoid@aussie.zone 19 points 1 year ago (4 children)

People these days really are sheltered if they can't detect sarcasm without it being specifically called out...

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[–] potterpockets@sh.itjust.works 34 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The argument can at the very best be very loosely made about the early NAZI party before the Night of the Long Knives. There were some incredibly loose planks in the platform up to that point that could be described as progressive/socialist. Not that any of the leaders with the possible exception of Röhm actually believed it. It was just a tactic of throwing out anything that would garner support to the movement. In this case to bolster interest among poor workers that would have been more inclined to side with the parties on the left.

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[–] Zerush@lemmy.ml 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Fascism is not a political ideology, it is a system of oppression to the dry, where a person or a chosen elite dictates the rules for the rest of the population, eliminating personal rights and discrepancies, this is what is defined as dictatorship. It is irrelevant which political label is put on. Communism under these conditions is not communism, nor would a real democracy be, in both, by definition sovereignty resides in the population and never in a small elite or a single person. In the western world we have the illusion of living in a democracy, but this is an illusion, since it is not the people who dictate the rules, but the interests of capital for the benefit of a few. This is why a capitalist system always promotes fascism and fights and maligns communism, democracy and human rights..

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[–] nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Oh, simple counterpoint to anyone making that claim: is Democratic People's Republic of Korea democratic?

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[–] rustyfish@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago (7 children)

But if nazis aren't socialist, what does the S in NSDAP mean? Checkmate liberuls!

/s <- obviously

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[–] Skyrmir@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is why I try to use authoritarian -ism when I'm not being lazy. Three reality is it's nothing to do with left or right, it's about control.

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[–] NutWrench@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Authoritarians and fascists often lie about what they are to make themselves more attractive to morons. The Nazis had nothing to do with "socialism."

For example, North Korea calls itself the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea." It's not Democratic. It's not "the people's." And it's definitely not a Republic.

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[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Because people who can't make their own discussions need an authority to follow. In the US, they turn to fox news, AM radio, or manosphere podcasts. Most of them have serious daddy issues.

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[–] sLLiK@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

When a small but dedicated group of vocal people started unironically and emphatically believing the planet was a pancake, I lost a significant portion of my lingering reserves of hope for the future of mankind.

Extremist politics and all the associated mindsets have long since jumped a row of sharks in my mind by comparison.

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