this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2023
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General Discussion

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founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

A good example is https://lemmy.world/c/documentaries

One of their mods, https://lemmy.world/u/sabbah, currently mods 54 communites despite only being on Lemmy for about a month and has never posted on c/documentaries (except for his post asking for people to join his mod team).

The other mod, https://lemmy.world/u/AradFort, has one post to c/documentaries and moderates 18 communities.

Does Lemmy.World have a plan to remove this kind of cancer before we start getting reddit supermods here too?

Edit: This comment shows how this is even more dangerous than I had thought.

Edit2: Official answer from LW admin is here

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[–] genoxidedev1@kbin.social 140 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I knew this would happen and that's why I am FOR hardcoded community limits per user unless an admin, in individual cases, allows the user to open additional communities based on past handling of other communities the user has been (or was supposed to be) modding.

Letting a user create 54 communities, especially those that were some of the biggest communities on Reddit is dangerous. Powermodding is a serious problem on online platforms and letting individual users create unlimited communities leads to it. Imagine how much money this person might want to sell their Account(s) for when the platform grows further and interest might accrue?

It is humanely impossible to mod more than a handful of communities alone anyways. The users you mentioned are powermods.

As another good example against freedom of creating unlimited communities is user LMAO whom most of you will probably at least have heard of by now, or even found when searching for a community that has numbers in its name.

I will stand by this position.

[–] ShakeThatYam@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Couldn't someone make alt accounts?

[–] genoxidedev1@kbin.social 24 points 1 year ago

Should we just keep the door open with an advertising sign or should we at least take the advertising sign away?

That's not an argument not to introduce hardcoded limits, it is a problem for sure, but leaving them the opportunity without at least making it a bit of a hassle is just going to invite opportunity assholes.

[–] James@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 year ago

Admin owners can see IPs, which will grab most of the abusers who do this.

There are other less direct techniques that major social media platforms use to identify users with multiple accounts even on separate IPs, which Lemmy will certainly need one day.

For now though, simply using IPs is good enough until those more sophisticated algorithms are developed.

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[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Ok, I think you have a point. But where do you draw the line?

IMO, it shouldn't be a hard limit - that's asking the dev team to deal with arguments on the topic indefinitely.

I think per-instance limits make more sense in the short term, but that still just mitigates the reason not to do it, it doesn't solve it.

Ultimately, I think we should experiment with novel strategies, such as various democratic spins on moderation that decentralize authority. The fediverse is all about decentralization and trying stuff without missing out on the larger network after all.

You seem passionate and you have a solid argument - you should post an issue on the GitHub. This shouldn't be hard to actually implement - the majority of the work on this one is convincing everyone this should be done and what the rules should be

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[–] Izzy@lemmy.world 139 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I've been trying to get an active mod to take over on the lemmy.world battlestations community, but despite my efforts posting in the lemmy.world support community which the admins have suggested doing for this exact issue there has been no change. https://lemmy.world/u/mandlar

In general I find it pointless for there to exist a million empty communities even when the creators have good intentions. Most of them are sub communities of a broader category which only serves to unnecessarily split a community while there is barely traffic in the broader topic. You shouldn't make a more specific topiced community unless the subject you want to discuss is getting burried in overwhelming traffic of the broader community.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 77 points 1 year ago

But there's people out there who want to be "top mod" and do zero work. It's like opening a lemonade stand but the only employee is a CEO that works from home.

They think since a community on reddit existed with that name, all they have to do is make a Lemmy community with the same name.

[–] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

One of the worst things about Reddit was that you could make a subreddit for anything but peeling away any amount of users from the "main" sub was next to impossible and forget about new user traffic without having the "default" name. Therefore the mods of that sub become the defacto admins of that topic on reddit until they piss off enough people to really get an alternative moving. Many different subreddits were actively fucked up by bad moderation but users kept dog piling in because it had the basic name you would think to search for, i.e. "television" or "videos" or "movies" or what have you. That name is real estate on reddit because no one else can have it, and that keeps horrible mods entrenched.

I think we should encourage several hubs and stop worrying about "splitting" communities. We have the benefit here of letting different communities grow under the same name to avoid that situation where a shitty mod team gets unchallenged ownership. No one else could make a /r/sandiego, so they never shook that real estate free from its horrible mod. Here? That's not an issue.

For example, one of Lemmy.world's biggest communities was locked by the head mod and forced to a different instance to join with another community. Without input from the lemmy.world users. It's still sitting there in the communities list, locked, but high up on subscribers. Meanwhile the instance it was moved to is moderated much more strictly. Admins over there heavily "curate"; remove any post they don't think are worthy enough to be posted.

I think that community should be unlocked and a new moderator should be allowed to take over, so there's a different version of that community on a different instance, then people can have a choice between what type of moderation they want to exist under.

Edit: !android@lemmy.world

Edit2: Reworded this mess for clarity

[–] tburkhol@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Federation directly addresses this. If there's a locked community, or a fake community on some instance, make another elsewhere. There will be some growing pains, but eventually people should migrate to the community that best suits their interests and attitudes. It's messy and more work than just taking the big corporate sponsored option, but that's the nature of organic communities.

There was another thread recently asking, "Do I need to subscribe to [community] on all these different instances?" Sure, that's a great way to find the 'best' one for you. Or just sub the biggest, or the one on the biggest instance, and hope for the best.

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

Pruning is an important step.

It would be insane for admins to say that sub that lasted a month gets to just stay locked forever

[–] WillfulBedder@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Is it the android community you’re referring to? As I believe that is run by the same moderators as was on the original subreddit, which is a shame.

I don’t feel like transplanting the exact same leadership / moderator teams as was on Reddit is always the best idea and some element of choice is important.

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[–] antik@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Mandler has not been active in a month. If you want any of the communities make a post there, tag me and I will add you as a moderator.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Dude was on Lemmy for 1 day and snagged 8 different pokemon subs...

He was really trying to catch them all

[–] grue@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I requested !fire (Financial Independence/Retire Early, for those who don't know.)

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[–] rowdyrockets@lemmy.world 72 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I have nothing meaningful to add to help prevent this from happening but I just gotta say… I physically cannot even imagine the level of goober you must be to squat a bunch of communities. Is it a desperation of power? The hope to monetize? You’re a fool if you think that’ll work out for you in the fediverse.

[–] variants@possumpat.io 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Maybe they just wanted to create the spaces and hoped to pass it on to someone who was interested but for now have the space where people could find, hopefully

[–] rowdyrockets@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We can hope but I think that’s idealistic. Just look at u/sabbah and his Reddit account under the same name to know he’s trying to powermod. Sad that someone can feel so empty IRL they grasp at the chance to dictate discourse online.

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[–] mightyfoolish@lemmy.world 59 points 1 year ago (4 children)

The LemmyAsk and LemmyExplain names are pretty clever. I hope those communities stick over the reddit-replacement communities like "AskLemmy".

[–] GratefullyGodless@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How about a travel one called LemmyPeopleGo?

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[–] JshKlsn@lemmy.ml 49 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I mod a bunch. Only because I joined when Lemmy got it's big first wave, and the site was literally dead. My contribution was making communities for people to start posting in, because a ton of people simply don't want to moderate, or don't know how to create communities.

Within the first week I got a bunch of DMs from people asking to be mods, and I added all of them. I am not making communities to horde them. I am making them so people have places to post. To get the ball rolling.

[–] orientalsniper@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Me too, I created 3 communities to help onboard new members, haven't gotten the time to upload a logo yet.

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[–] TeaHands@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There is a current initiative to get new mods for communities that are being used, but have inactive mods. Whether that covers any of these and what exactly the criteria are for "inactive", I do not know.

[–] SomeoneElse@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I mod 3 very small communities (less than 800 subscribers total) but other than creating the communities and posting some content to get the ball rolling I haven’t actually done any modding. I’m not sure what there is to do. No one has tagged or messaged me, no ones reported anything… am I inactive, redundant or just a terrible mod?!

[–] CmdrShepard@lemmy.one 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

Just ban a random user each week to show you're still active.

You have enough users to make it at least 800 weeks!

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[–] Nawor3565@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 year ago

Lemmy is still small enough that you may just be getting lucky with everyone behaving themselves. If no one is reporting anything, just try to stay in-the-loop with the general goings on in the community so you can jump in if something does happen.

[–] 567PrimeMover@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

I run a small community of under 100 users. Everyone's been following the rules so far, and there hasn't been very much that has needed my attention. I still try to make an occasional post and interact with posts that other users make (favorite, boost, comment).

I think that if you're at least interacting with your communities in some way, you should be good!

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[–] Metal_Zealot@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

is this him on Reddit too? If so, he's trying to claim his subs from Reddit, which I personally think is bullshit

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[–] fubo@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

Currently the way communities work is a "homesteading" model: whoever gets there first gets complete control, unless the instance admin decides otherwise and takes it away.

This is not the only way that things could work.

[–] asunaspersonalasst@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Is this a phenomenon where power mods from Reddit are making these fallout shelters to establish their status quo here in case Reddit really dies?

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[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The admins have started releasing some subs, but the world isn't the limit of the fedeverse. If I was to start a new community, I probably wouldn't host it here.

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[–] Ghyste@sh.itjust.works 26 points 1 year ago

People trying to be power mods on Lemmy. We saw how well that worked on other sites...

[–] Hazdaz@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Fix this problem now before all the Reddit refugees decide that the new boss isn't any better than the old boss.

[–] Blaze@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 year ago (5 children)
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[–] antik@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

Our stance on squatting made clear using !android@lemmy.world as an example https://lemmy.world/post/1661949

[–] soulifix@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

There should be a regulation on this. This shouldn't be treated like Reddit here. If a user creates more than 4 communities and is unable to moderate every single one after that 4th one, be it 5 or 10 whatever. They should lose access to all of those communities and it's offered to a user who's more active and willing to moderate it.

This is why Reddit's moderation is as bad as it is. They have to rely on automoderation to do their work and there are users on there, like awkwardthetutle, who moderate 100+ communities. They can't quite possibly have that much time to maintain a single one.

[–] mojo@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Should do what Reddit did and make a takeover request subreddit. Admins would step in on subs that are clearly abandoned or squatted on and relinquish control to users who requested it. Nothing is lost anyways, since the subreddits were dead to begin with. Same can apply to the Lemmy instances.

[–] antik@lemmy.world 43 points 1 year ago (7 children)

But there are options?

We might not always react as fast as you like but this isn't our job it's a hobby project and sometimes there are other, more important issues that have to be handled first. But we will get to it! Cheers

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[–] Cariocecus@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I am moderator of the four communities I have created and I am thinking of creating a few more, but once each of these communities has a regular user base, I will make my place available and appoint other moderators.

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[–] s38b35M5@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (10 children)

What happened when you posted about this in !support@lemmy.world? If no traction there, you can always email info@lemmy.world

They would likely need to be deleted, unless things have changed since this comment was made.

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[–] itadakimasu@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Big problem. No immediate good solution

[–] InvaderDJ@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

How would you stop this in a fair, repeatable way? Especially since alts are so easy to create.

It makes me think this type of behavior is inevitable in any community where users can create their own subs. There might not be any easy way to deter this.

[–] yaniv@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago

Good admins and moderation are the cornerstones of any community. Always have been, always will be.

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