this post was submitted on 28 Sep 2024
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Tesla workers in Germany complain about home visits from their bosses (arstechnica.com)
submitted 1 month ago by sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al to c/workreform@lemmy.world
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[–] RQG@lemmy.world 113 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Thierig also pointed out that sick leave tended to increase on Fridays and late shifts. "That is not an indicator of bad working conditions because the working conditions are the same on all working days and across all shifts. It suggests that the German social system is being exploited to some extent," he said.

How bad of a manager can you be to not understand this? When your sick leave is more than three times as high as the automotive average, then your working conditions are so bad people are getting sick. Being too exhausted to work or unable to take another day of horrid working conditions at the end of the week is a symptom of that. Not being able to make it through a late shift for health reasons is not abusing the Healthcare system. That is what it's for. Stop treating your people bad and they will be healthier and come to work. How hard is that to understand?

[–] SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 49 points 1 month ago

How bad of a manager can you be to not understand this?

It's a factory owned by Musk, so power tripping, being abusive and borderline illegal behavior is baked into the business model, probably including a furious Musk visiting from time to time to shout at management he wants results by tomorrow and does not want to hear any excuses. And that's how shit flows downstream and pressure is put onto the line workers, and the good managers shut up and find another employer to work for.

[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 47 points 1 month ago

the working conditions are the same on all working days and across all shifts

Dude has obviously never worked so hard that his energy for the week is drained on friday.

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 month ago

Typical narcissist fault avoidance behavior.

[–] cows_are_underrated@feddit.org 4 points 1 month ago

What's also important is, even though you may seem healthy you can be sick. So your manager is obviously not able to tell that you're sick. German law say that when you are sick it is forbidden to do anything that prevents or interrupt the healing process. This also means, that when you get diagnosed as sick for mental reasons you're allowed to go to the park or go to the amusement park because doing stuff that makes fun is actually quite helpful for this.

[–] rustyfish@lemmy.world 56 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Such home visits were not well-received, and bosses were greeted with slammed doors and threats to call the police. But Thierig claimed checking up on sick workers at home was common practice and that they were appealing to "the employees' work ethic."

Wrong. You are allowed to visit your employee at home when you have a very good reason to believe they are faking it. But you visited 30 employees. You’re doing this shit systematically. Even the union is calling you out for overworking people until they get sick. I hope you keep fucking up like this. Labour courts are usually heavily in favour of employees. When they band together the court will rip you a new one.

[–] teegus@sh.itjust.works 29 points 1 month ago (2 children)

How would they know they are faking it? Not all sickness is visible.

[–] john_lemmy@slrpnk.net 17 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Exactly. Unless for some reason these bosses are all trained medical doctors, aren't the medical notes, emitted by medical doctors I'm assuming, enough to show they aren't faking it?

[–] rustyfish@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago

The thing is, I never heard any employer actually doing this. I knew they could do it. But until now I thought even the densest boss would shy away from risking a legal enema.

[–] grrgyle@slrpnk.net 4 points 1 month ago

Yeah I'd even go so far as to say what if it's a mental health day. Those are totally valid for preventing mini burnouts.

[–] Mirshe@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago

Not to mention that these managers had time to do this in the first place, which indicates to me that those managers are doing a whole boatload of nothing.

[–] Badeendje@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

Look, of they show up with a smile and a get well soon package you make a very different impression even if it also serves as a check up.

[–] Skates@feddit.nl -1 points 1 month ago

You are allowed to visit your employee at home when you have a very good reason to believe they are faking it

What you're allowed to do and what you should be doing are two very different things. I live in a bad neighborhood, how about if you're my manager you stay the fuck at work and then you don't have to worry about being jumped by three people with knives, and I don't have to worry about where am I going to hide a body?

[–] mysticpickle@lemmy.ca 42 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I know Scott Adams is a nut but I felt this was appropriate:

[–] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

He definitely had/has a good grasp on the corporate hellscape. Too bad that he fell prey to the modern conceit that you need to use whatever platform you have to spout your opinions.

Just make your funny/depressing corpo comics and live the rest of your life privately man.

[–] grrgyle@slrpnk.net 5 points 1 month ago

While he only worked briefly in the corpo world, he had people constantly emailing him with work anecdotes, so that's how he kept his finger on the pulse so to speak.

Trump definitely broke his brain in some way though. He views him as some sort of drunken master of rhetorical manipulation.

[–] grrgyle@slrpnk.net 4 points 1 month ago

I remember reading this. Ashok the intern was so adorable

[–] reddig33@lemmy.world 40 points 1 month ago

Sounds like a great way to bring airborne illnesses back to the factory and end up with more workers on sick leave.

[–] Jake_Farm@sopuli.xyz 33 points 1 month ago

That is fucking creepy.

[–] x00za@lemmy.dbzer0.com 32 points 1 month ago (1 children)

But Thierig claimed checking up on sick workers at home was common practice

Yes you have to send a doctor if you suspect it's a lie. Only doctors are allowed to diagnose people. A manager at the door is pure fearmongering, and they can't even legally use their observations in their reasoning.

[–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The unions should visit André Thierig’s home and see how he likes it.

[–] fizzyvelcro@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago

Guten Abend Herr Thierig, we just came to see if you are okay.

You are not allowed to visit an employee’s residence without invitation, so what you did made us very concerned about your mental wellbeing.
Therefore we have brought our doctor with us to check up on you, to make sure you are allright.

Tschüss!

[–] kSPvhmTOlwvMd7Y7E@lemmy.world 31 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Wtf lol if my boss shows up at my door uninvited I am calling police too

[–] bleistift2@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 month ago

For what? Just keep the door closed.

[–] Noite_Etion@lemmy.world 28 points 1 month ago (1 children)

No you can't come in...

[–] elvith@feddit.org 16 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Well yes, cough cough come in and wait cough with me for the cops, that I called on you. Also I hope cough you brought a mask toots nose and some disinfectant to not get infected by me.

[–] Evil_incarnate@lemm.ee 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

shakes hand I ran out of toilet paper at 3am, but it keeps on coming out.

[–] DoucheBagMcSwag@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

scratches asshole i hope you're ready for an unforgettable luncheon

[–] bstix@feddit.dk 28 points 1 month ago

Intimidating people to work doesn't solve whatever is causing people not to work. It might very well be caused by similar strategies in the first place.

[–] Krzd@lemmy.world 24 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Yeahhh.... I'm foreseeing a lot of lawsuits and fines. That shit is extremely illegal in Germany.

[–] bleistift2@sopuli.xyz 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Can you quote a law for this?

[–] Krzd@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It would fall under harassment by your employer.

As the Entgeltfortzahlungsgesetz (Entgfg) § 5 Abs. 1 handles the duties and responsibilities of the employee, therefore limiting the employer. A Arbeitsunfähigkeitsbescheinigung (short AU) (certificate of incapacity for work) is always complete and full, without any compromise towards the employee. So you don't even have to answer your phone at all, much less open your door.
There are ways for your employer to officially doubt the validity of the AU with the health insurance, that then can, but don't have to, order a medical examination to confirm the AU. Based on Sozialgesetzbuch, Fünftes Buch (SGB V), § 275 Abs. 1a Buchstabe a)
This is an official inquiry though, so any and all suspicions about unhealthy work environments would be officially recorded and investigated, which in this case I imagine would be pretty bad for Tesla.

[–] bleistift2@sopuli.xyz -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It would fall under harassment by your employer.

§5 EntgFG doesn’t say anything about an employer visiting their employee. I couldn’t find a ruling stating that knocking on someones door constitutes harassment. Of course the employer doesn’t have to open, but you still haven’t produced evidence that the visit itself is illegal.

[–] Krzd@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

Obviously the physical visit itself isn't illegal, the employer is still another civilian that can knock on however many doors they want to. But as soon as the motivation behind it is to pressure the employee to return to work despite having an AU, or to doubt the validity of the AU, it violates the previously mentioned laws. The intent is what's making the difference. Depending on how the employer phrases their requests, this might also violate §240 StGB.

[–] Shrp91@lemmy.world 22 points 1 month ago

That is disgusting

[–] lemmydividebyzero@reddthat.com 19 points 1 month ago

In Germany? This won't end well for them in Germany.

[–] dumbass@leminal.space 19 points 1 month ago

I'd call the cops on my boss if they just rocked up when I called of sick just ton"checkup on me"

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 month ago

Unions rise up