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Alabama executes death-row prisoner with nitrogen gas (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 1 day ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

64 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Alan Miller shook and trembled on gurney after becoming second person to be executed by controversial technique

Alabama has carried out the second execution in the US using the controversial method of nitrogen gas, an experimental technique for humans that veterinarians have deemed unacceptable in the US and Europe for the euthanasia of most animals.

Alan Eugene Miller, 59, was pronounced dead on Thursday evening at a south Alabama prison. The lethal method involves being strapped to a gurney, where a respirator mask is applied to the face and pure nitrogen piped in. The resulting oxygen deprivation will cause death by asphyxia.

Miller shook and trembled on the gurney for about two minutes with his body at times pulling against the restraints, followed by about six minutes of gasping breathing, according to the Associated Press.

Miller’s death is the latest in an extraordinary week in the US in which five condemned men in five states are set to be killed over six days. Three prisoners have already been executed – on Friday South Carolina killed Khalil Divine Black Sun Allah in its first execution in 13 years, then on Tuesday Texas killed Travis Mullis and Missouri put to death Marcellus Williams.

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[–] Apytele@sh.itjust.works 56 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (3 children)

They're not doing it correctly to be used as euthenasia. You need:

a) a person without COPD, chronic bronchitis, or any other disorder that has swapped their drive to breathe away from increased blood carbon dioxide / acidity and towards oxygen deficiency (fun fact, oxygen deficiency isn't what drives most people to breathe).

b) a cooperative person who can follow instructions to breathe out fully then take 2-3 full deep breaths

c) a nonrebreather mask which is a special mask with an outlet valve so that when they breathe out that air with all the carbon dioxide is vented while the nitrogen continues being pumped in. (Edit: This is if they're alone in a room or somewhere with excellent ventilation, or the nitrogen would be vented as well after a certain point and could harm the observers, that's why the sarcopod is a pod).

Sounds like they're fine on A, but not doing B or C.

[–] SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works 10 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

They were trying to do it cheaply.

[–] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 16 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

No, the cruelty is the point, as per standard procedure. The people who do this sort of shit enjoy killing people and the fucked up US "justice" system lets them do it legally.

[–] SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 hour ago

It could also be both, using one as the excuse for the other.

[–] billiam0202@lemmy.world 29 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Yes, but if they did that, the prisoner wouldn't suffer!

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 23 points 19 hours ago

Yes, if the prisoner would just calmly participate in being murdered, everyone would be much more comfortable!

[–] Asifall@lemmy.world 5 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

So does B make this basically a non-starter? Seems like you’re never going to get someone to cooperate with this (not that I blame them).

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 4 points 8 hours ago (3 children)

Yep. It’s fine for euthanasia but humane execution is impossible because of the extreme drive to survive in humans.

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[–] njm1314@lemmy.world 89 points 1 day ago (3 children)

So he went through eight minutes at least of pain and panic? Sure sounds like cruel and unusual punishment to me. Although the idea that Alabama killed a man using a method considered too brutal to kill animals with does seem fitting.

[–] bastion@feddit.nl 34 points 23 hours ago (2 children)

No. With the notable exception of rodents, animals generally can't detect oxygen deficiency directly (though they may get loopy).

Nitrogen asphyxiation basically makes you loopy, then unconscious, then dead. It's experientially equivalent to exposure to normal air at extremely high altitudes. Military pilots are often exposed to this (in a controlled manner) precisely because it's so hard to recognize, and doesn't induce fear. Like, epic levels of hard to recognize, as in "Hey Bob, it's time to put your mask back on to keep you from dying!" Bob: snickers and clearly thinks this is a great joke, until the person straps his mask back on, and he realizes how serious the situation is

You can make a trough for a (non-starved) pig that constantly releases nitrogen gas (which it breathes as it's eating). The pig puts his head in the trough to eat, then passes out from lack of oxygen (this pulling it's snout out of the trough), then is like "what was I doing? Oh look, food.." ..and goes right back to it, passing out again.

This is completely different from the reaction to carbon dioxide asphyxiation, which the body has sensors for, and induces all kinds of panic. Try the same trough experiment with a pig using carbon dioxide, and it will stay the fuck away from the evil trough of death.

[–] Mac@mander.xyz 29 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (3 children)

You can watch Destin from Smarter Every Day almost die on camera* due to hypoxia.
I'll go looking for the link.

Obviously watch the whole video but start at 5:27 (ends around 7:30) for the moment. Watching this freaks me the fuck out every time.
YT Link

*He was in a safe environment

[–] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 16 points 21 hours ago

Also so many instances of cave divers going loopy then dead in a matter of minutes. It's astounding that it's so easy to accidentally die from nitrogen but we just can't seem to get the hang of not torturing people to death.

[–] themadcodger@kbin.earth 9 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Holy shit. I assumed we would have minutes not seconds if a plane depressurized. I understand what that would freak you the fuck out.

[–] Mac@mander.xyz 11 points 20 hours ago

That's not what gets me, its watching him degrade and then not have the presence of mind to simply reenable his oxygen.
That triggers me super hard for some reason

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[–] natecox@programming.dev 14 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Multiple reports from observers of this execution method: it’s horrible, they thrash around on the gurney and seem to suffer greatly

This guy: nuh uh.

[–] Apytele@sh.itjust.works 16 points 22 hours ago (4 children)

They're not doing it correctly. The person needs to be cooperative and able to follow instructions, and they need to be using a specific type of mask that vents their breath with the carbon dioxide out.

[–] ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 4 hours ago

Yeah, I'm pretty sure most people aren't going to cooperate in their own execution.

This isn't like assisted suicide/euthanasia. These are, by definition, people being forced into this by the state. At least some portion of them are always going to be uncooperative.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 22 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah, good luck getting someone to be cooperative and calmly following instructions while being murdered by the government in front of an audience 🙄

[–] Apytele@sh.itjust.works 12 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Precisely. Wonderful if you've got highly painful terminal cancer though!

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 8 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

True. Pretty fucked up how the proponents of state murder can't see how those are fundamentally different situations.

[–] Apytele@sh.itjust.works 8 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

That's also why I'm being so active in this comments section; I don't want people reading about compassionate euthenasia thinking "wait isn't that how they torture people to death?" because it's not unless you're basically trying to use it that way. I've actually been briefly trained on what to do in an inert gas leak in some of the radiology safety modules for work because some of the imaging machinery uses inert gas and they literally tell you it's super easy to accidentally die that way because by the time you've even noticed you're almost dead.

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[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 4 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (2 children)

Yes, and they need to violate every human instinct and cooperate. They know this gas is there with the specific purpose to kill them against their will, it’s incredibly difficult to voluntarily breathe in that situation

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[–] bastion@feddit.nl 4 points 6 hours ago

Yeah. The suicide pods are a good example. There's enough space in them that the person won't experience CO2 buildup in the short amount of time it takes.

[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The way they are doing it is horrifying.

[+] bastion@feddit.nl -26 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (5 children)

No. Perhaps that they are doing it is horrifying, but the way is very humane. It is literally getting loopy and falling asleep, over a very short time period.

[–] EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Since when is 8 minutes of fighting against your restraints and desperately gasping for air "a very short time period?"

Being strangled to death with a piece of rope would take less time than that. A proper chokehold with your bare hands to deny oxygen to the brain would've killed him in about a minute.

[–] bastion@feddit.nl -1 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

You have no idea what you are talking about.

With nitrogen, you are literally be breathing out your oxygen. No, a rope is not faster. No, a rope is not more humane.

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[–] Apytele@sh.itjust.works 5 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

Yeah if you're cooperative and able to breathe all the way out then deep breathe those first few breaths it's actually the ideal way to go. You do also have to not have COPD or chronic bronchitis or another disorder that's swapped your breathing drive to oxygen deficiency instead of carbon dioxide excess. The rising CO2 / blood acidity from re-breathing the same air you put out is actually what causes the anxiety / panic of suffocation for most otherwise healthy people, not the oxygen drop. So if they were using a nonrebreather mask and doing this as compassionate euthenasia for terminal illness for people able to cooperate it would actually be one of the better methods.

[–] escapesamsara@lemmings.world 30 points 23 hours ago (2 children)

When done correctly, i.e. full immersion with proper removal of CO2, then it is humane. The current technique does not remove CO2 from the mask, meaning the victim chokes to death and knows they are choking the entire time.

[–] TallonMetroid@lemmy.world 14 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

So, this is similar to how lethal injection executions were getting botched because all the people who knew how to do it properly refused to on moral and ethical grounds, and the states decided to push ahead anyway?

[–] escapesamsara@lemmings.world 11 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Pretty much. Also down to money, the proper way requires a full chamber, plus constant monitoring and replacement of all gasses in said chamber -- it can't be done with just a mask or helmet, that means thousands of liters of nitrogen per second to do it properly.

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[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 14 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

It is literally getting loopy and falling asleep, over a very short time period.

Maybe read what ACTUALLY happens in stead of regurgitating what WOULD happen under ideal circumstances ffs!

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[–] MacAttak8@lemmy.world 10 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

I agree that nitrogen can be used for a peaceful euthanasia. Definitely not the way they are doing it though.

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[–] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 7 points 15 hours ago

They enjoy murdering people.

[–] hperrin@lemmy.world 9 points 23 hours ago (3 children)

If we’re going to kill people, which we shouldn’t, why not be humane about it and use a firing squad?

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 22 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

There is no humane way, they all fuck up. Most people who actually support the death penalty want recipients to suffer.

[–] hperrin@lemmy.world 5 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (2 children)

Agreed, but firing squad seems to be the closest to humane.

The executed died quickly, and the executors don’t know for certain that they had a bullet.

[–] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 6 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

I think they found extreme PTSD in the executioners that used that method.

You don't know if you killed them or not, a lot of times. That will gnaw at people who aren't okay with killing, especially in such a cold and sterile way.

Plus, it isn't always quick.

[–] borari@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 8 hours ago

As someone who has fired a ton of live rounds as well as a ton of blanks, I don’t understand how anyone can’t tell whether they fired one or the other.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

I would say guillotine would be closest. Even an entire squad shooting at you could potentially miss your heart.

[–] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

Due to blood being produced I believe that's disqualified. Otherwise a .22 caliber bullet followed instantly by a .22 hollow point to both the brain and the heart simultaneously would be the fastest and most humane experience for the victim.

However, very few people want to build and operate such a contraption.

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[–] SirDerpy@lemmy.world 5 points 22 hours ago

Because that disturbs the comfort of a complacent society. Nothing about the US judicial and prison system is humane.

[–] isolatedscotch@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 18 hours ago

meanwhile Japan having hanging as their only method for death penalty

[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 7 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

There's lots of people arguing that you require a cooperative person. But you could just put the person to sleep with an injection first, then strap them to the gurney, then slide them into a tank and just pump stuff in and stuff out. I think it's the cruelty that keeps it cruel. Those people in charge are as heartless as the cop waiting by the 20mph sign next to the school that happens to have been placed next to the freeway entrance.17mph, you're good, 21mph... are you white? If not you're getting a ticket. It's best done right in front of your own kids. Cruelty is what it is all about.

[–] ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

The problem with that is, no anesthesiologist will work on an execution (something about "do no harm"), and properly sedating someone without one is more difficult than it appears to be.

[–] SacralPlexus@lemmy.world 3 points 1 hour ago

Probably not that hard if you don’t care if the patient survives.

¯\(ツ)/¯

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