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So he went through eight minutes at least of pain and panic? Sure sounds like cruel and unusual punishment to me. Although the idea that Alabama killed a man using a method considered too brutal to kill animals with does seem fitting.
No. With the notable exception of rodents, animals generally can't detect oxygen deficiency directly (though they may get loopy).
Nitrogen asphyxiation basically makes you loopy, then unconscious, then dead. It's experientially equivalent to exposure to normal air at extremely high altitudes. Military pilots are often exposed to this (in a controlled manner) precisely because it's so hard to recognize, and doesn't induce fear. Like, epic levels of hard to recognize, as in "Hey Bob, it's time to put your mask back on to keep you from dying!" Bob: snickers and clearly thinks this is a great joke, until the person straps his mask back on, and he realizes how serious the situation is
You can make a trough for a (non-starved) pig that constantly releases nitrogen gas (which it breathes as it's eating). The pig puts his head in the trough to eat, then passes out from lack of oxygen (this pulling it's snout out of the trough), then is like "what was I doing? Oh look, food.." ..and goes right back to it, passing out again.
This is completely different from the reaction to carbon dioxide asphyxiation, which the body has sensors for, and induces all kinds of panic. Try the same trough experiment with a pig using carbon dioxide, and it will stay the fuck away from the evil trough of death.
You can watch Destin from Smarter Every Day almost die on camera* due to hypoxia.
I'll go looking for the link.
Obviously watch the whole video but start at 5:27 (ends around 7:30) for the moment. Watching this freaks me the fuck out every time.
YT Link
*He was in a safe environment
Also so many instances of cave divers going loopy then dead in a matter of minutes. It's astounding that it's so easy to accidentally die from nitrogen but we just can't seem to get the hang of not torturing people to death.
Holy shit. I assumed we would have minutes not seconds if a plane depressurized. I understand what that would freak you the fuck out.
That's not what gets me, its watching him degrade and then not have the presence of mind to simply reenable his oxygen.
That triggers me super hard for some reason
Yeah. This is the thing.
Multiple reports from observers of this execution method: it’s horrible, they thrash around on the gurney and seem to suffer greatly
This guy: nuh uh.
They're not doing it correctly. The person needs to be cooperative and able to follow instructions, and they need to be using a specific type of mask that vents their breath with the carbon dioxide out.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure most people aren't going to cooperate in their own execution.
This isn't like assisted suicide/euthanasia. These are, by definition, people being forced into this by the state. At least some portion of them are always going to be uncooperative.
Yeah, good luck getting someone to be cooperative and calmly following instructions while being murdered by the government in front of an audience 🙄
Precisely. Wonderful if you've got highly painful terminal cancer though!
True. Pretty fucked up how the proponents of state murder can't see how those are fundamentally different situations.
That's also why I'm being so active in this comments section; I don't want people reading about compassionate euthenasia thinking "wait isn't that how they torture people to death?" because it's not unless you're basically trying to use it that way. I've actually been briefly trained on what to do in an inert gas leak in some of the radiology safety modules for work because some of the imaging machinery uses inert gas and they literally tell you it's super easy to accidentally die that way because by the time you've even noticed you're almost dead.
You’re getting pushback here because you’re conflating two entirely different scenarios—capital punishment and assisted suicide—without clarifying that you understand the difference. I can understand what your intent might be but you’re using the same arguments that proponents of capital punishment are using to claim this is a good way to execute people.
It comes off as “no, these people aren’t suffering” instead of “it really sucks that these people are suffering, the arguments for it being humane don’t apply to this scenario and we should stop doing it” (which is what I want to believe you mean).
I got enough upvotes that I think most people understood. I'm sorry you struggled with it.
Yes, and they need to violate every human instinct and cooperate. They know this gas is there with the specific purpose to kill them against their will, it’s incredibly difficult to voluntarily breathe in that situation
No, they don't need to cooperate. If you struggle and thrash, no matter how you die, you'll endure the struggle and thrashing.
I apologize if I implied they should cooperate. Cooperation is necessary for the painlessness. But I believe they have the right to fight to their dying moment and that it is laudable to do so
Yeah. The suicide pods are a good example. There's enough space in them that the person won't experience CO2 buildup in the short amount of time it takes.
The way they are doing it is horrifying.
No. Perhaps that they are doing it is horrifying, but the way is very humane. It is literally getting loopy and falling asleep, over a very short time period.
Since when is 8 minutes of fighting against your restraints and desperately gasping for air "a very short time period?"
Being strangled to death with a piece of rope would take less time than that. A proper chokehold with your bare hands to deny oxygen to the brain would've killed him in about a minute.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
With nitrogen, you are literally be breathing out your oxygen. No, a rope is not faster. No, a rope is not more humane.
This comment has been reported. After doing more research than I ever wanted to on this topic, I have determined this to not be misinformation.
As to the accuracy of the information, I cannot say, as all the information science has on it is based on accidents. All I can say is there is evidence to say that this comment was made in good faith.
I will not speak on the topic of death sentence.
Except they're not filtering out the carbon dioxide, so you're suffocating in a mix of your own exhalation plus the nitrogen.
Maybe read the part where the dude struggled for 8 minutes before he finally died.
Yeah if you're cooperative and able to breathe all the way out then deep breathe those first few breaths it's actually the ideal way to go. You do also have to not have COPD or chronic bronchitis or another disorder that's swapped your breathing drive to oxygen deficiency instead of carbon dioxide excess. The rising CO2 / blood acidity from re-breathing the same air you put out is actually what causes the anxiety / panic of suffocation for most otherwise healthy people, not the oxygen drop. So if they were using a nonrebreather mask and doing this as compassionate euthenasia for terminal illness for people able to cooperate it would actually be one of the better methods.
When done correctly, i.e. full immersion with proper removal of CO2, then it is humane. The current technique does not remove CO2 from the mask, meaning the victim chokes to death and knows they are choking the entire time.
So, this is similar to how lethal injection executions were getting botched because all the people who knew how to do it properly refused to on moral and ethical grounds, and the states decided to push ahead anyway?
Pretty much. Also down to money, the proper way requires a full chamber, plus constant monitoring and replacement of all gasses in said chamber -- it can't be done with just a mask or helmet, that means thousands of liters of nitrogen per second to do it properly.
We now have 3D printed euthanasia pods for people that elect to do so. First successful case was very recent. I don’t feel that adding some restraints would be a major hurdle.
If the death penalty unfortunately sticks around, this seems like a humane, cheap way to do so.
Then that's not simply killing him with nitrogen gas. But the better method is:
..that is all. If they're fucking it up, it's on them.
..that is all.
But also, even when completely unconscious, complex living things with a central nervous system (including people) tend to flop when they die.
Maybe read what ACTUALLY happens in stead of regurgitating what WOULD happen under ideal circumstances ffs!
Nah. I know what happens. I've experienced asphyxia.
Have you experienced being murdered by the government in front of an audience? Using a method that's humane if (and ONLY if) you're completely calm and fully cooperative?
The exact circumstances matter.
I agree that nitrogen can be used for a peaceful euthanasia. Definitely not the way they are doing it though.
Unless they are pressurizing the space the guy is in, nitrogen will just make you black out, without suffering (other than the human knowledge that you are about to die, but that exists with all methods).
This comment has been reported. After doing more research than I ever wanted to on this topic, I have determined this to not be misinformation.
As to the accuracy of the information, I cannot say, as all the information science has on it is based on accidents. All I can say is there is evidence to say that this comment was made in good faith.
I will not speak on the topic of death sentence.
They enjoy murdering people.