this post was submitted on 25 Sep 2024
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[–] ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 5 points 25 minutes ago (1 children)

Mark my words.

For many of us, this is a "No shit Sherlock" moment.

But in 10 years, we will have young people going "Uh what really?"

Remember when we used to say, "Don't put your name on the internet?" And now it's everywhere?

[–] BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 2 points 11 minutes ago

That was like the biggest thing i learned in computer class, that i already knew in 2002 or so. Later myspace became a thing, and everyone had a myspace name. Then facebook and some people used their real name. Then facebook asked you for your phone number, and i thought: well, that's silly, who in their right mind would do that. Turns out the answer is everyone.

[–] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 5 hours ago (6 children)

Is article mixing things or am I missing something?

You don't need to hand over your phone to present a digital ID. At least in my country the digital ID just creates a qr that the cop can scan to verify. There is no reason to hand over anything on the whole process.

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[–] potatopotato@sh.itjust.works 92 points 10 hours ago (17 children)

If you absolutely have to hand over your phone, turn it off completely, like hold the power button and then tap the off icon. That will dump any keys out of RAM, which is why it always requires the full password to unlock when you turn it back on. Both in terms of how your phone works and the leaks we've seen, the cracking tools the police have are overall significantly less likely to be successful when used on a phone that's been turned off and not unlocked since.

Also, IIRC iphones have a feature where they will dump at least some of the system keys from RAM if you push the lock button five times. I'd still trust fully off more but that's easier to do covertly.

[–] JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee 6 points 8 hours ago

Also on Android press the power button and volume up button simultaneously, and then press lockdown.

[–] ODuffer@lemmy.world 36 points 9 hours ago (7 children)

Five times wanted to set off an emergency service call and sound the alarm 🚨 YMMV (Pixel 7)

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[–] PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works 100 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (17 children)

I’m sorry if this is a stupid question, but what is the best way to refuse to do this?

Say you’re in xyz situation and a cop demands your phone. You say no. They get angry, maybe make some threats (whether true or not), etc.

What is the best way to say no, you aren’t comfortable, come back with a warrant, without pissing them off royally in such a way that things end up worse for you?

[–] helenslunch@feddit.nl 10 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

You can be polite and decline consent without resisting. "I do not consent to any searches or seizures". If it's taken from you illegally then anything they find is inadmissible in court. If it's taken from you legally, ain't shit you can do anyway.

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 43 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (3 children)

"what's a phone?"

"I don't know why my fingerprint isn't working" (biometrics are disabled)

"I don't remember my passcode" (it's a pattern input field)

"The guy at the phone place changed it for me"

"It's never really worked right."

"There's no Google on it tho." (What does this even mean?)

"Who do you need to call anyway?"

"Can't you just use your own phone?"

Just act like the dumbest creature on earth.

[–] ShareMySims@sh.itjust.works 10 points 5 hours ago

And if you're Black - get shot for "talking back"

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[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 16 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (2 children)

Depends on local laws, but if the cops ability to seize your property without warrant isn't protected by local laws:

Ask if they have a warrant and if they don't then take your phone oout and power it down, then put it back in your pocket and tell them they can direct complaints to your lawyer because you're not handing over any devices.

If they seize it without a warrant then you can sue the department, although if they have reasonable suspicion then you won't have much luck.

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[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 124 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (7 children)

in such a way that things end up worse for you?

IANAL. This is what they want you to think, "just do this and it'll be better for you". It might be a short term hassle waiting for the drug dog, or being arrested while they conduct their investigation. But long term it's the court that matters. And the court will throw out anything obtained illegally or the cops do illegally.

Cops are not there to help you, they just want to find someone to pin a crime on. The only one that will help you is your lawyer. Stfu. Don't talk to the police.

[–] rtxn@lemmy.world 44 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (2 children)

Important addition: don't just shut the fuck up.

First, in some jurisdictions, failure to identify is an arrestable offense. Full name, date of birth, relevant cards/papers.

Second, if you need to reach for something, say something so they don't think you're about to pull a weapon on them. Officer safety is always a concern in the land of handing out guns like candy.

Third, explicitly state that you are exercising your fifth amendment rights. Otherwise you might run into an "I want a lawyer, dawg" situation.

[–] TheFool@infosec.pub 13 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Not something I expected to look up today Context

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[–] MrVilliam@lemmy.world 67 points 10 hours ago (4 children)

This. You have rights, but the police will lie, cheat, and steal their way into getting whatever they want, especially when what they want is for you to waive your rights.

When stopped by the police (in America), you say "I invoke my fifth amendment right to not answer questions and I don't consent to any searches and seizures. Am I being detained or am I free to go?" That question starts a clock for what is a reasonable amount of time to detain you for their investigation because you've made it clear that you'd like to leave as soon as you're legally allowed to.

As for any kind of force, just stay silent and unthreatening. They're gonna do what they're gonna do, and anything you do can be used as rationalization for escalation, which they really seem to fucking love. Be polite when you do choose to speak. Obey lawful commands and let them arrest you if that's what they're gonna do. You don't fight armed thugs in the street, you fight them in court. File complaints and sue when they violate your rights and cause undue harm. Swinging at them or shouting in their face is how you get shot. Let their ego win the moment and then administratively destroy their career and life later on.

I'm also not a lawyer, but this is what any half decent lawyer would tell you to do. Just shut the fuck up (but invoke your right to shut the fuck up or your silence can actually be used against you) and be as passive as possible so your lawyer has a slam dunk case getting your charges dropped and/or suing the everloving fuck out of them, hopefully nullifying their qualified immunity in the process. Nothing you do or say to the police can help you, but it sure as shit will be used against you. Even things you think are innocuous can corroborate that you're who they're looking for, so just shut the fuck up.

[–] dudeami0@lemmy.dudeami.win 23 points 10 hours ago

To add to this spending some time in custody is inconvenient, but losing your rights being convicted of something you didn't even do is more inconvenient. You think you know what to say until you say the wrong thing and start digging a hole.

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[–] dudeami0@lemmy.dudeami.win 50 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

Just the act of refusing makes the act of seizing your phone legal or not. If you legally give them your phone by your own will, they are able to use all evidence they find in the courts. If you deny to give them your phone, and they seize it anyways and access it you have a valid path to throw the evidence they discover out as an illegal search and seizure of your property. I'm not a lawyer but that is the general thought process on denying them access to your property.

Edit: Just want to say this mostly pretains to United States law and similar legal structures. This advice is not applicable everywhere and you should research your countries rights and legal protections.

[–] PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works 10 points 10 hours ago

Never thought about it this way. Thanks!

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 105 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

what is the best way to refuse to do this?

try to be as white as possible.

[–] doingthestuff@lemmy.world 30 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

They definitely slam white people's heads into the ground for telling them no, too.

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[–] dudeami0@lemmy.dudeami.win 46 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

To add to this, don't use bio-metrics to lock your devices. Cops will "accidentally" use these to unlock devices when they are forcibly seized.

[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 24 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

If you reboot your phone, the first unlock can't use biometrics

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[–] SolarMonkey@slrpnk.net 27 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (3 children)

Or just know how to enable lockdown mode. On iOS that’s 5 rapid clicks of the power button, screen on or off, and it vibrates to let you know you got it without looking. Dunno what it might be for android, or if it varies by model.

It ends up like a newly rebooted phone; requires a typed passcode. It also provides quick links to medical ID info and the sos emergency call thing. It may, if you have an ID set up, also have a link to that, but I don’t have that configured so not super sure.

[–] dudeami0@lemmy.dudeami.win 10 points 11 hours ago (4 children)

I personally rather trust that my device isn't able to be unlocked without my permission, rather than hope I am able to do some action to disable it in certain situations. The availability of such features is nice, but I would assume I would be incapable of performing such actions in the moment.

My other thought is, how guilty is one perceived if they immediately attempt to lock their phones in such a matter, by a jury of their peers? I rather go the deniability route of I didn't want to share my passcode vs I locked my phone down cause the cops were grabbing me.

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