Why even waste your time making this post if you don't actually want anyone to debate you? In your post, and in a couple comments, you say you can't/won't be dissuaded from your opinion; so literally why waste your energy making this post (or any of your other bullshit ones, for that matter)?
this post was submitted on 30 Jan 2024
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The actual question is, since they don't want to properly debate/discuss anything, why are we wasting our time commenting here? ๐
Sometimes, you just have to poke the bear. ;-)
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(6 replies)
You should go outside and go for a walk. This is not up for debate.
There's nothing to discuss based on your viewpoint. It doesn't matter what anyone says about the gameplay being actually OK because you've already formed your opinion it seems. Judging a book by its cover.
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Dude, I dislike games that prey on addictive behavior as much as.the next guy, but holy cow are you a toxic piece of work. You waffle on about how we all left Reddit for some ulterior motives and whatnot. Most people left Reddit because it has become the very headbutting contest you try to pull off here.
If you cannot understand why this game has appeal (and that's a sentiment many of us would share I think), don't fucking play it. But don't walz around constructing some weird superiority story out of that. That's just immature and petty.
Oh, and don't assume that every Lemmy user has the same reason for being here than you or shares your values.
Huh, I'm starting to guess we're dealing with a teenager here.
I have a side question if you don't mind.
In multiple posts you mentioned how you expected people on fediverse to be "more principled" and how they can only support the smaller option or just give up and accept everything corps throw at them which is why you're surprised some play gacha games.
Does that expectation also extend to "normal" F2P games like Apex, Fortnite etc? Does it include people playing full-price AAA games? Titles like GTA, Diablo, Halo, majority of MMOs and more - games that not only are paid but also include season passes and micro transactions.
Should people also avoid those?
Just so we're clear, it's a genuine question. I have no skin in the game as I don't really play HSR, AAA games or really care what people expect from me but I'm curious about your perspective on things.
I avoid those games. But I don't expect others to have the same tastes as me. I'm certainly not demanding people don't like those kind of games like OP seems to be doing about Honkai
Which is totally fair - I feel like most (conjecture?) people who dislike such things will simply avoid these games and play other stuff.
OP focused on gacha games but didn't mention paid ones despite the fact many of them implement similar monetization schemes which is why I'm curious about their point of view on this.
My main problem is with F2P mobile games that have any kind of gambling mechanics associated with them, or any games that are set up to get you to pay endlessly for the privilege of playing the game, even though it's not marketed as a subscription service game.
World of Warships, World of Tanks, and War Thunder are the big non-mobile offenders, in this regard.
Games like Fortnite and Apex are just on the acceptable side of things, because they're mainly selling cosmetics. They're not claiming to be free, then blocking off large sections of the game behind grind-fests, which you can then get rid of with paywalls. As far as I know, you can play all the Apex and Fortnite you want, and the only temptation to spend money is based on "oooh, I want that cool-looking thing."
Resisting the impulse to buy a cool-looking thing is everyone's own responsibility. Therefore, selling cool-looking things isn't unethical. Getting someone addicted to gambling and/or using Skinnerian conditioning to slowly acclimatize them to paying for a "free" game is NOT okay.
Alright, that cleared up some things, thanks. I assume FIFA's (well, EA's FC) Ultimate Team also falls under that umbrella since it's straight up rolling for power?
Since you're fine with cosmetics what about mobile/gacha games that are primarily that?
For example, I play a game called Girls Frontline - I didn't pay anything yet have all bar 3 characters (the missing ones can be farmed on stages I haven't played yet) with most of them leveled up and equipped for pretty much any available content. There's no stamina that needs to be refilled and events have 3 difficulty levels to allow even new(ish) players to complete the story. The main monetary incentive here comes from skins (which can also be obtained using saved up resources). Would a game like this be alright according to your perspective?
While majority of gacha can absolutely be predatory there are more titles like that within the "genre" which is why I'm interested in your focus on mobile titles. Sorry if it sounds like I'm trying to look for a "gotcha" or something like that - that's not my intention.
The Girls Frontline game seems to occupy basically the same space as Fortnite, from what you're saying. Also, I really appreciate the fact that you're questioning my position in a constructive way, unlike a lot of the people here, who basically jumped at me, automatically taking a de facto position of defending all gacha games, no matter how predatory.
Being asked these questions in a constructive manner isn't just more polite, it IS actually constructive. It's helping me to refine and understand my own position. I strive to be consistent and logic-driven, in my opinions, but nobody's perfect. I can admit that some of my views may be somewhat emotion-based, and can be specified and sharpened based on discussion.
I think the most important thing to avoid, if you don't want to be playing a game that's unethical (and maybe even dangerous) is anything that combines a stamina refilling, gameplay limiting mechanic AND a pay-to-roll gacha mechanic. The worst of those being the kind where the common characters (or weapons, mechs, cars, etc) are super-duper weak, compared to the rare and overpowered characters.
Either one of those mechanics can be bad, especially if it's tied to spending money. Combining them together is extra bad. It's even worse if the game continually markets itself as "free."
If a game has no stamina-based playtime-limiting mechanic AND the unlockable characters/skins are entirely (or almost entirely) cosmetic, I figure it's basically fine.
I'm glad I could give you a chance to expand on your view in a more neutral manner. I like discussing things and learning other people's points of view so I try to approach online discussion in a positive and open-minded way. It's not always easy but I try.
I think the main reason people jumped on you so easily was the tone of your OP and some of the more heated comments - they come off like you aren't really interested in an explanation but rather looking for affirmation in shit talking other people's interest in those games. Feeling strongly about a topic can be a detriment at times and it's an easy way to derail a decent topic for a conversation.
That said, seems like we're pretty much on the same page even if I don't feel as strongly towards the disliked parts of the industry as you do. I simply stick to titles that don't punish me for not spending ever increasing amounts of money.
Op: Why do people play this game?
Lemmy: Gives reasons
Op: I DONT LIKE THOSE REASONS, WHY ARE PEOPLE IDIOTS
Id guarentee he's a troll just by even a glance at how hes responding.
Its like Genshin. It has a very specific audience (weebs). It just happens to be a niche that is very active online. Most people who that doesn't appeal too just don't think about it rather than posting about something they dislike.
Its ok to let people like the things they enjoy
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(2 replies)
You have very strong opinions for a game you clearly have never played. If you boldly claim a game is "trash", but haven't actually played a minute of it yourself, then your opinion is invalid, and should be ridiculed and dismissed.
That said, if you're actually looking for a real answer and not just shouting "look at me and my superior, sophisticated taste in video games," it may come as a shock to learn that the answer isn't as profound as you may think: Different people like different things.
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Okay guys, who fed the gremlin after midnight?
I haven't played Honkai: Star Rail, but there are plenty of great mobile games and plenty of great free to play games. You sound like you just have an extremely narrow mind.
Can someone explain to me why Honkai: Star Rail is treated as something other than trash?
Nah.
Username doesn't check out
Like Genshin Impact, Star Rail has a decent base game that does well with its characters and combat. Notice I didn't say "great".
However, after you get through the intro and the first world, they start adding on to the game. There's a whole bunch of 1-off mini-games that are fun in their own right and have nothing to do with the Gacha.
The first one is a museum administration mini game where you're responsible for "hiring" people that have 3 stats, and then balancing those stats to make money for the museum, then using the money to upgrade the museum, run mini-quests to restore the museum, and hire more staff. And expand the museum.
Each of these little mini-games is a few days of fun, and I think I've found 4 so far IIRC in Star Rail. Genshin Impact has had similar things, but tend to not be permanent, and to be less involved than Star Rail's.
The gacha is generous enough that you can generally play without paying anything. I don't think I've given any money to Star Rail, though I have paid the monthly $5 to Genshin Impact for a few months now. And I'll admit, I started thinking about paying it to Star Rail, too. It's definitely a gacha game, but on the actually-playable side if you're playing free.
That said, if gacha games are something that just stick in your craw, it's unlikely that any game will change that, and I'd argue that you're better off never finding out.
In the end, I'd say you're best just accepting that for what it is, it's one of the best, and letting it go. There's no point in being upset that people enjoy a game that you can't. Let them have their fun, and go have your own instead.
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The inherent appeal of gacha games is always cute anime girls/pretty anime boys. I doubt anyone will find any of these games appealing to them if they don't like the art style in the first place.
I haven't played Honkai or Genshin Impact, so my understanding and knowledge of both games is fairly limited (mostly hearsay from people who actually played them), so take the rest of the message with a healthy dose of salt.
I've heard the production value is excellent compared to most other mobile games: for the low price of $0 (gacha microtransactions excluded, of course) you get a full open world game with nice graphics and animations and a fully fledged story (I'm unsure how good that actually is and from what I've seen I'm inclined to think "not much", but it probably appeals to anime fans).
I've also heard that you can play Genshin Impact for free and still get the characters you want if you're patient enough, which is not something that can be said of most gacha games. The PvE nature of the game means that you don't necessarily need the best lv999 S-rank character to compete with other players, and can enjoy (most of?) what the game has to offer for free, which means that you don't need to engage with the gacha aspect of the game if you don't want to. I don't know if that applies to Honkai as well, but considering it's a very similar game from the same software house, I'd say it's possible.
In conclusion, I don't think the game is worth checking out if you don't like anime and/or mobile games, but if you like any of those and are a young person without a stable income, a f2p open world game with bells and whistles such as nice graphics and animations could be appealing. Although, as I said, my opinion is mostly derived from hearsay and a quick glance at YT to check what the deal was about, I won't pretend I really know what I'm talking about here.
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