I fully expect these images to appear.
this post was submitted on 28 Dec 2023
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Careful though. Declining gas prices have traditionally come with recessions. I recognize that Joe Biden is NOT responsible for the economy. But the President is always blamed for economic issues.
The overall issue at play is that Chinese growth has stalled out, and so has the consumption of many other countries... and meanwhile the USA ramped up production of oil dramatically. This is only useful if we spend the oil on something (ie: economic growth) here on out. But if we too enter a recession, then all this oil basically gets wasted.
I think we have a ton of space in our strategic reserves (Ukrainian war + Russian shipping issues + OPEC forced us to use our strategic reserves a year ago). So refilling up our reserves is good. But we can't enter a long, deep recession (its surprising how small the strategic reserves are in the great scheme of our economic engine. A few months of recession is all we need to fill up the strategic reserves and then we're forced to concrete-weld the oil shut / other expensive tricks to block out our oil wells). We need to hope that our economy remains afloat for all this to work out.
My hopes is that all of the economic problems are associated with other countries and somehow the USA is immune to it. But we do live in a connected world today, there's a chance that the Chinese slowdown spreads to over here through unknown (or at least, arcane) mechanisms.
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I predict that oil and gas companies will collude and drive prices up like they always fucking do
I remember paying $5/gal during Bush's final years. I'd just started driving in the Midwest. It's below $3 right now, so idk what this comment means. The price of standard goods like bread, milk, and housing are up, for sure, but gas is fuckin weird
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You know what else could reduce gas spending but without relying on the market? Making it possible to exist in America without a car by building walkable cities and public transit.
I agree, but how long do you think it would take? I feel like if we started today, it would be decades before the demographics were transformed to a good situation.
And if we dont start it just continues car dependancy for decades. It is not just the gas spending, car centric design is bleeding cities economically and enviornmentally. Suburbia and strip malls were a new and experimental development in the 40s-50s, we now know these developments cost more to maintain than they generate in taxes as well as waste massive amounts of urban space contributing to urban sprawl.
High gas prices should get higher.
I say this as someone who would be significantly effected by this.
We're all dependent on this fragile fishbowl from one moment to the next, but by all means, lets make it as easy as possible to strain that shared habitat harder and harder and hope some other generations have to deal with the externalities.
This is discounting ice water on the Titanic. That said, sometimes I forget who we are, so glug glug glug lets burn this fucker down I guess, and fuck electrics! They're slightly less convenient to power than fossil fuel vehicles, and that's all that matters.
That's just going to harm people at the bottom in both the short and long term. Wealthier people can pay the inflated prices. Lining the pockets of oil company executives isn't going to bring about sustainable policies with regards to climate change. It's just going to be yet another grift on the working class like all the others.
That's all true, and the reality is there is no solution that averts mass unnecessary suffering, because the fact is, the wealth class can do a lot of things to help and bear a lot of brunts of problems they themselves created on our backs, but use their power to assure they never will. Kind of the point of capitalism. They have all the power and none of the accountability, and only care about the future if it's a fiscal quarter in front of their face.
They will maximize profit until the last sucker drops dead or says no with no subsistence opiates left to lose. If that means enjoy the cheap gas in these waning days of willful denial, I guess that's better than nothing.
I disagree. Gas prices affect the working poor in a significant way. People with money like to bitch about gas prices, but it doesn't really affect them. We need to push renewables while still keeping gas affordable in my opinion (and I fucking hate the gas companies).
Products and services that have gone up because fuel costs more wont be going back down though.
It's already fallen pretty drastically these past 6 months or so. It's around $2.89 near me which is a full dollar less than it was over the summer.
How am I going to justify the purchase of an EV if these gas prices keep falling? 😅
Still better for the environment if you go EV!
Well I did buy one already. And I can afford it. But I love seeing those higher gas savings numbers.
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In December 2022, GasBuddy projected gas prices would average $3.49 a gallon in 2023. That forecast was nearly spot-on, with actual gas prices averaging $3.51 a gallon so far this year.
That's something. I'm curious how they did in previous years.
I suspect there are a number of state and local budgets are not prepared for gas tax revenue's to continue to fall.
Not that I'm unhappy to see lower prices.
My state jacked up registration costs for EVs and fuel efficient ICE vehicles and is piloting a pay by mileage program. I admit they have to do something, but currently they're just incentivizing people to buy gas guzzlers because they pay the least amount out of anyone tax wise.
The fairest thing would be to tax tires, since they're mileage rated and size would be indicative of infrastructure wear. Except that it would incentivize people to drive on unsafe tires.
I mean, why not just cut to the chase and tax mileage driven? That's what gas taxes indirectly do already. The only issue there is the tax goes wholly to the state where the vehicle is registered, rather than where it is driven.
The problem I have with this is that it doesn't account for actual road damage (which is a factor of weight and not distance) and incentivises states to reduce public transit and low cost housing options. The further your citizens have to move from their jobs means more cash in the coffers.
Is it that big an incentive though, or just reducing the disincentive? Even if you get a $500 discount on your taxes, I'm guessing the gas guzzler eats up more than $500 worth of gas extra. That's like, 2-3 gallons per week over the course of a year.
Probably not that big of an incentive for the driver of a gas guzzler depending on how much they drive, but the state shouldn't penalize people for driving more fuel efficient ICE vehicles especially one like mine that loves to give lip service about climate change while not really doing anything concrete to reduce it. I could see charging more for EVs as they pay zero gas tax, but ICE should either all be the same or tiered in the opposite direction to further disincentivize people from commuting in a '92 Suburban versus something like a Prius.
I thought the gas tax was a fixed number rather than a percentage, wouldn't that mean the revenue would stay the same?
Ish. Gas prices fall because people don't drive as much. The whole supply-and-demand thing.
In this particular instance, everyone who is into Trucking knows that logistics / truckers are losing jobs left-and-right. We are already in a "freight recession" (sector-wide recession), no promises it spreads to the general economy. But when truckers enter a recession, there's less taxes because less gasoline is being consumed.
That's why people fear falling gas prices. Because it means the economic engines (trucking, freight, deliveries) are slowing down. And that absolutely has an effect on taxes. Even fixed-taxes like gas taxes.
Fewer people buying gas means less overall revenue. This is due to EVs, more fuel efficient vehicles, and people driving less from things like work from home policies.
I imagine many places do. My city has a sub 1% tax.
Don't worry MI is one who is gouging the EV drivers. They have a flat EV tax added on the plate registration no matter how many miles driven. My bro who drives about 200 miles a month is has to pay about what it would cost if he used gas and drove 3000 miles per month.
At least the price of something will go down.
Hard to buy gas when you can't even afford the rent...
Hopefully diesel too.
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