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There was a lot of poor choices working in concert to allow this accident to even happen, but based off the article there was nothing maliciously stupid, or grossly negligent in the context of rural southern AZ.
this post was submitted on 23 Dec 2023
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What does that mean? Negligence is not a regional concept?
The difference between negligence and gross negligence is quite significant, and contextually dependent.
This family lives near the border in a rural desert, which is typically flat, open, and sparsely populated.
ATVs are a pretty common way to get around, even for younger kids, and so is target shooting.
Poor choices were clearly made (negligence), but nothing either party did was done with a reckless indifference and disregard for life or property (gross negligence). At least, assuming no other facts come out that significantly alter what was said in the article.
If this same incident occurred in the middle of an urban, or even suburban, city with a medium to high population density, then it would be grossly negligent to have kids on ATVs, or to shoot .22 caliber air rifles.
Context matters.
Not sure what op meant, but there's a lot of angles that I can see it being true. Having a shooting range on personal property is very different in rural Arizona than places with higher population density. The risk is objectively not as large. The space makes it unlikely to hit anything you wouldn't want to target, and it's very ingrained in gun culture to be smart about what direction you fire.
They may have also been referring to accepted risk vs freedoms. Gun people understand that there's a risk to owning guns, but it's an acceptable risk because they value guns, much like how people understand the risk of traveling by vehicle yet still choose to.
You know, whenever a kid gets accidentally shot, I think of all the other 359x359 directions the bullet could have gone and wonder how many millions of stray shots are flying around.
New years in some places are literally Russian roulette.
What do you mean?
I would assume he's referencing the number of celebratory gunfire incidents. There are a lot of holes in roofs, cars, and every now and again people from people shooting guns in the air for celebration. There is a non-zero chance that one of those bullets will have enough power to do serious bodily harm. Scary as hell bc it can be some idiot within 3 miles putting lives at risk
I feel like by the time the tide turns on gun control people will be so frustrated that repeal of the second will be on the table.
The article says it was actually an air rifle pellet, which is probably always going to be legal. They are quite powerful for some models.
This isn’t a gun control issue.
You are right, it is not a gun control issue, it is a gun culture problem.
Isn't it?
Where I live, this would be impossible because you wouldn't be allowed to shoot guns somewhere kids can ride through. That's gun control, and it includes air guns.
What I meant is that this incident didn’t really happen because of some sort of systemic gun control problem. Everyone was being responsible with regards to gun control, it’s just that some kids made a dumb decision and some parents weren’t around to intervene. It doesn’t matter how robust your gun control laws are; there will always be some tragedies. I’m all for stricter gun control laws in the U.S., but that’s not going to result in zero gun fatalities. I sin ppl y honk it’s worthwhile to accept it when shit happens despite everyone doing reasonable things to prevent it and not blaming every gun death on gun laws.
Everyone was being responsible with regards to gun control, it’s just that some kids made a dumb decision and some parents weren’t around to intervene.
Um, "everyone was being responsible" and "parents weren't around" are exclusionary statements. It's impossible to be both with guns (even air guns).
Except you prove the point.
- Everyone was being responsible.
- If gun control was incorporated, responsible people wouldn't have guns at this moment in time. (many irresponsible people wouldn't either by the laws of supply & demand but that's beside the point here)
- Thus, the child would be alive.
I think you could argue that any gun incident isn't the result of a "systemic gun control problem," gun control just prevents things. It's a little confusing to say, but a lack of gun control isn't a root cause of gun problems, it's just a solution to them (and an objectively good one imo).
While I understand your point, and think it's fair, I'd add that a part of gun control is the proper education of gun owners such that they have the thought patterns necessary to consider these sorts of possibilities, and to take action to prevent them. It's a big part of the system here, obtaining a gun licence involves training that fundamentally alters your view of responsible gun use.
That said, I'm not going to pretend that gun control would have prevented this, but it should reduce its likelihood.
Oh weird I thought a child was murdered with a gun
Not as long as parents like this are bringing sacrifices
Thank you for your contribution, Vaginal_blood_fart.
How about you don't let the kid play anywhere near a shooting range let alone leave the possibility for them to drive right onto it with an ATV. It sounds more like reckless manslaughter rather than an accident to me
It wasn’t a shooting range. That part of Arizona is pretty rural, and it looks like they rolled onto some land where people were doing target practice. Not uncommon for a rural community.
This is exactly how I ended up getting shot at while hiking. A bunch of drunk assholes decided to do target practice without checking what was down range, or they just didn't care that they were shooting towards a trail. Either way, bullets were hitting trees near us so we took off running back the way we came.
From what the video on the report seems to imply, it looks like the kids took their ATV on private property that their parents told them not to go on.
Still though, ATVs aren’t silent. The fact that they kept shooting wasn’t smart at all.
If you don't want to go deaf really quickly you should be wearing ear protection while shooting. If they were then I doubt they could have heard the ATV. If they weren't wearing hearing protection then they were probably too deaf to hear anything anyways.
It was an air rifle. Those are only around 70db.
Well if they had ear protection they might not have heard them, it's just a mess
It’s pretty common in AZ that off-road trails where you take vehicles double as target practice areas. On the side of a trail will be an area with backstops (basically the side of a mountain or just dirt hills) where people setup targets and shoot. The desert is a big place out there but there are also a lot of random dirt bikes and ATVs around. Supposed to be the responsibility of the people doing target shooting to watch out for people.
Gross negligence to shoot targets anywhere in front of any kind of trail.
As an off road enthusiast, it is always super sketchy how there are random folks with guns shooting as I pass by. They have their backs to the trails so are shooting away but still, you can sometimes spot them with a case of beer lining up their empties. Ain’t no one going to say anything to them so I imagine that is a reason it is so prolific.
Tell us you live in the city without saying that you live in the city. Hell, there's Wildlife Management land here in Georgia specifically laid out as trails with ranges set up netx to them.
an air rifle can kill?? wtf kind of air rifle is this?
I'm sure a paint ball to the eye could potentially kill someone too.
If only she had a gun to defend herself with!