this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2023
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Health experts say axing plan to block sales of tobacco products to next generation will cost thousands of lives

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[–] NocturnalEngineer@lemmy.world 216 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Why benefit society when you can just fuck it over whilst profiting from short term gains.

God I hate how this planet functions. Tax the fucking rich already.

[–] RTRedreovic@feddit.ch 69 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Taxxing won't do anything because structurally the Rich have the most power in the system. The only way to fix this is to systematically remove the Rich through whatever means and remove the means which enables them to exist.

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[–] elbarto777@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Planet? Don't include the mice and dolphins in the way the homo sapiens do their shit.

[–] Tier1BuildABear@lemmy.world 22 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Dolphins can be dicks sometimes too lol

[–] Lophostemon@aussie.zone 17 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Plus have you ever seen them go through a pack of ciggies? Fuckin chimney-faced bastards so they are. REEKING of fags. Horrid creatures.

[–] kautau@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

And when the planet is about to go tits up they’re just going to “thank us for all the fish” and say “so long” as they disappear into a different dimension. Truly selfish

[–] Powerpoint@lemmy.ca 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Boomers are having a temper tantrum in their death throes by elections these Conservatives.

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[–] Emperor@feddit.uk 72 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Makes you wonder how much lobbying Big Tobacco did.

[–] SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca 55 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They just had an election and the government flipped from centre-left to centre-right. It could just be the classic conservative “our position is whatever is the opposite of the left!”

[–] SomeoneSomewhere@lemmy.nz 41 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Winston Peters (NZ First leader) is a total alcohol, tobacco, and racing (horse, greyhound, whatever) industry shill. I doubt he exactly needed to be bought, but this is certainly part of his price for being part of the coalition government.

ACT (secular libertarian free market folk) probably mildly supported it, and National (general centre right; largest party) is probably much the same.

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[–] AnAngryAlpaca@feddit.de 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Big tobacco doesn't really need cigarette sales anymore. They are all in on vape brands, where they can sell the liquid at ink-jet prices to customers for a huge markup at $6500 per liter. That's why you see vape shops on each street corner. The distribution is all streamlined. The website talks to the DHL warehouse about what stock is available, customers can subscribe to weekly delivery plans and the warehouse is filled by some factory in china.

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[–] livus@kbin.social 7 points 11 months ago

Hard to say because they are very sneaky. We do know that Big tobacco ran a fake grassroots campaign with an imaginary dairy owner front man. ("Dairy" is the New Zealand name for corner shops/ drugstores)

Tagging you @AnAngryAlpaca - they may not need it but their greed didn't get the memo.

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[–] trebuchet@lemmy.ml 69 points 11 months ago (7 children)

Lol sounds like this increases tax revenues by increasing the number of addicted smokers buying cigarettes and then taxing the sales.

Really sound government policy there.

[–] livus@kbin.social 25 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (7 children)

They have actually admitted this is going to be revenue gathering. NZ has some of the highest tobacco tax in the world.

Basically their election promise was tax cuts, which they intended to do by allowing more foriegn ownership of real estate and taxing it.

After the election they found out they could only govern with the help of a populist party and a libertarian party.

The populists won't allow more foriegn ownership of real estate. Meanwhile the libertarians' wet dream is stuff like more ~~lung cancer~~ tobacco.

So we get shitty last minute law changes we didn't see coming, like this one.

[–] SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Wait, they want more foreign ownership of real estate?? Are they high lol. That's going to price out every last young person there from homes that's not already priced out.

[–] livus@kbin.social 11 points 11 months ago

Yeah it was straight up one of their biggest election promises.

What can I say, their core base is landlords, boomers, and people who want leopards to eat faces.

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[–] tankplanker@lemmy.world 17 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It's worse than that as it's short term tax gains now but increased public health spending later from those same taxes when they start getting cancer in a decade or two.

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[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

When you elect the clowns of conservative/neoliberal politics, you get what you deserve — a circus.

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[–] jonne@infosec.pub 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Tax revenue that you'll have to plow right back into the health care system to treat expensive lung cancers. But hey, that's only 20 years down the line, so you look good now.

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[–] Akasazh@feddit.nl 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Yup. It's really effective. I've paid my share of lung ruining tax in my lifetime. And for most of that time I'd be happy to defend my right to soil my airways to something close to the death.

I've been clean for over a year. But that addiction is so fucking emotional that you let them squeeze you dry and you almost applaud it. The perfect capitalist drug.

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[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 67 points 11 months ago (11 children)

This headline SCREAMS 'conservative':

  • bad for people
  • bad for healthcare
  • generate tax cuts ... for the wealthy
[–] InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

But think of the savings. Early death means budget surplus from hospice saved. /s

Can someone that still has a twitter ask Dan Patrick to take one for the economy here?

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[–] livus@kbin.social 52 points 11 months ago

New Zealand is scrapping a whole lot of things right now.

10 years worth of environmental protection laws is another thing being scrapped.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 23 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I think it's more that pro-smoking plays better with their right wing voter base than taxes. That and the fact that ciggies can still be bought, so the younger generation will still be able to get them. I mean, it being illegal has never stopped any drug. The best way to get rid of smoking is just to ramp up the tax and wait for everyone to take up something cheaper. Even the most hardened smoker at my work now vape instead. Not amazing for you, but got to be better than inhaling all the crap in cigarettes.

Only the mega rich have a solid reason for caring about tax cuts. Everybody else should be clamouring for better services, as that is what will really be cut to give those billionaires more money to hoard.

[–] Pogbom@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I've always supported this approach too but I have to wonder... is there a point where it gets taxed so high that people will just go back to the black market? What would prevent anyone from going black (heh) if it's cheaper than the legal option?

[–] veroxii@aussie.zone 7 points 11 months ago

There's already plenty of black market ciggies in both NZ and AU. Just watch one of the border patrol shows and every second person they catch is a suitcase full of cigarettes.

[–] eatthecake@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

The black market in australia is huge. Almost everyone i see smoking at work or at pubs is smoking black market cigarettes or using illegal vapes. If they crack down on the black market i expect to see a large rise in robberies of shops selling cigarettes. The taxes have gone too far. This is also why they won't ban smoking. Billions in tax revenue.

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[–] Guntrigger@feddit.ch 23 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The thing I find hilarious is that a few weeks ago, when there was talk of the UK doing the same sort of thing, everyone was pointing to this legislation as an example of how it has worked elsewhere.

It didn't even last a year! All it's done is slightly annoyed a handful of teenagers for a few months.

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[–] SangersSequence@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago (8 children)

Smoking is awful, disgusting, and through the diseases it causes puts a massive burden on the healthcare system... buuuut, educational campaigns to encourage people to stop and limiting it in media/banning advertisements is definitely the way to go over yet another prohibition law.

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[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 8 points 11 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


New Zealand’s new government will scrap the country’s world-leading law to ban smoking for future generations to help pay for tax cuts – a move that public health officials believe will cost thousands of lives and be “catastrophic” for Māori communities.

National has had to find new ways to fund its tax plan, after its coalition partner, New Zealand First, rejected a proposal to let foreign buyers back into the property market.

“Coming back to those extra sources of revenue and other savings areas that will help us to fund the tax reduction, we have to remember that the changes to the smoke-free legislation had a significant impact on the Government books – with about $1bn there.”

But public health experts have expressed shock at the policy reversal, saying it could cost up to 5,000 lives a year, and be particularly detrimental to Māori, who have higher smoking rates.

Te Morenga highlighted recent modelling that showed the regulations would save $1.3bn in health system costs over the next 20 years, if fully implemented, and would reduce mortality rates by 22% for women, and 9% for men.

“This move suggests a disregard for the voices of the communities most affected by tobacco harm – favouring economic interests,” said chief executive Jason Alexander.


The original article contains 601 words, the summary contains 211 words. Saved 65%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 7 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Awful reason, but fuck these laws. Declaring a person forever disqualified from what other people will still be allowed to do is obviously not the same thing as 'you must be 18.' It is infuriating how many people pretend there's no difference.

Ban smoking for everyone or don't ban smoking. Trying to be "clever" about equality under the law is just fresh discrimination.

You want money? Tax the companies, not the customers. Take as much as you like. The alternative is, they don't get to exist.

[–] Landsharkgun@midwest.social 24 points 11 months ago (7 children)

It makes perfect sense. Cigarettes are cancer death machines in an addictive package. They should be banned. However, we've learned from hard experience that making addictive drugs harder to get just leads to addicts trying even harder to get them. So what's a practical solution? Grandfather in the current addicts and try like hell to keep everyone else away from it.

Equality doesn't come in to this. You do not, in fact, need to protect people's right to addictive cancer sticks.

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[–] HeartyBeast@kbin.social 13 points 11 months ago

Banning it for existing addicts is tough and can be cruel. Stopping new addicts is easy and a gift for life

[–] livus@kbin.social 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Nope. @Landsharkgun is right. Zealand already has some of the highest tobacco taxes in the world. Tobacco is incredibly expensive here.

What happens is the addicts spend all their money on insanely expensive tobacco and their kids go hungry.

These laws came after years and years of rising prices, massive taxation, plain packs with disgusting health warnings, free nicotine patches and free gum for anyone who wants to quit.

It has been working too. Our smoking rates are way down.

I'm really disappointed that we did the hard yards on this and now these turkeys are going to dismantle over a decade's worth of work and bring a whole new generation into lung cancer land.

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 7 points 11 months ago (3 children)

In Washington State, it's recently illegal to sell tobacco to anyone under 21. Placing it on the same level as alcohol or weed.

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[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

How very evil of them. I personally don't think smoking, or any other substances should be banned. But they just admitted they think they should be banned, but won't ban them because they'd rather have the money. Exchanging people's lives for profit.

[–] stopthatgirl7@kbin.social 6 points 11 months ago

Y’know, I gotta admit, I would have never pegged this article as one that would make my notifications go wild. 🤣

[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (5 children)

It was a cowardly way to enact a law.

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