this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2023
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politics

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[–] nutsack@lemmy.world 155 points 11 months ago (3 children)

many people in red states think that talent and wealth are moving to red states to escape liberal politics. they are in a different dimension

[–] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 49 points 11 months ago (1 children)

So true! I have debated ad nauseum with conservatives on this very topic. Their media machine is feeding this absurdity to them and they believe it. They see it as hard evidence that conservative policies are superior to any other policies.

[–] SheDiceToday@eslemmy.es 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

It's gotten to the point I don't even talk to people who bring up the topic. You can quote any number of statistics, but they've "dun seen that californian moving in up the road, so there's the proof right there!" I guess the fact that on a ~21 house road, we've got Carolingians, Alabamians, Tex(i)ans, Michiganders, and some Arkansaws folks means that people are fleeing blue states, sure, ayup.

*The post's language is intentional >.>

[–] NewNewAccount@lemmy.world 34 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Texas might be the sole case where that’s actually happening. Most of the wealth is being concentrated in and around Austin, though.

[–] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 9 points 11 months ago

And Nashville, but both are purple dots and the moment these states take a harder stance on gender policies they will relo.

Nashville moreso because of rent costs.

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[–] theodewere@kbin.social 6 points 11 months ago

they think they can create their own "dimension" where everything they want to believe is magically true

[–] PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works 145 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

A good friend of mine with a masters in Aerospace Engineering had a job offer in Texas from NASA & she turned it down because of their pro-forced birth laws.

[–] greenfish@lemmy.world 78 points 11 months ago

My friend is a DevOps engineer, she fled Texas with her wife. They're both trans

[–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 23 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I've turned down a couple prospective offers for that too. I am not going to trade my shithole state for a shittier holier state.

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[–] xantoxis@lemmy.world 100 points 11 months ago (1 children)

This would be bad news for red states except the people left still get 2 senators, a disproportionate number of electoral votes, and the ability to use the internet.

[–] recapitated@lemmy.world 29 points 11 months ago

And thus setting in motion the literal plot setup for Idiocracy.

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 96 points 11 months ago (11 children)

Well, yeah, conservative policies are horrible. I don't see why smart people would want to live under them.

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[–] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 66 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I know the red/blue model is useful in some cases but I live in a red state (Louisiana) in one of the most blue cities in America (New Orleans). Biden won like 40% of the statewide vote and we have a two-term Democratic governor (about to leave office but still). And that’s with a state Democratic Party that is a constant mess, never has resources, gets zero national investment or attention, and sometimes doesn’t even field candidates.

National politics isn’t everything. Sure, Biden shouldn’t spend much time or money here but Democrats have no excuse not to have an aggressive 50 state operation. Just having a credible candidate means a scandal can flip a Congressional seat but attorney generals and secretaries of state matter too. There’s even value in losing an election even if your candidate is just on the local news calling out his opponent.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 26 points 11 months ago (2 children)

My state (GA) elected two Democratic Senators and folks still label it "red."

[–] TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id 17 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Plenty of talk about Georgia being purple though too.

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[–] Wodge@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You can blame Marge for that.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 11 points 11 months ago

Or the extremely narrow margin and Republican control of state government.

[–] osarusan@kbin.social 19 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I wonder if the whole red state/blue state discourse would disappear if we just got rid of the fucking Electoral College...

[–] maryjayjay@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago

Gerrymandering is a much bigger problem

[–] Skwerls@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 11 months ago

Throw in ranked choice voting while we're at it

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[–] Motavader@lemmy.world 51 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

I feel like this is part of a Republican long game - make their states so unpalatable to progressives that they move out, thus ensuring that the US Senate and House are never again under Democratic control. It's like a for of self-imposed gerrymandering for Democrats, packing themselves into the few states with liberal legislaturea and policies.

Of course, those blue states will continue to subsidize the red states through tax dollars and federal programs, but that's another issue entirely.

[–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 31 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That’s not the end game. Conservatives will never be satisfied with progressives existing in their country, even if in a different state.

No, the goal secession. Or worse.

[–] Blackbeard@lemmy.world 26 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Yeah I'm not convinced at all that they're ok with us existing in other states. They want us completely and utterly nullified as having any political say in this country. They want us off school boards, out of Congress, out of the White House, off the city council, not moving to their towns, not vacationing in their regions, not watching their sports teams. They want us silent, imprisoned, deported, or dead.

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[–] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The house part doesn't work though. Population determines representation, so if lots of people leave, the red states get less votes in the house. Granted, we will have to wait for the next census, which should be really interesting to read about.

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[–] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 45 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'm a tech worker who's planning to move from one of those states international oversight groups consider "no longer a democracy" to a blue state.

[–] otp@sh.itjust.works 9 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I remember a bunch of Americans telling me that America isn't a democracy, and shouldn't score high on those indexes that rank countries... because the USA is actually a republic.

So of course, there's no sense in comparing the US to other countries unless they're also republics. Or if we're talking about economies.

[–] theodewere@kbin.social 14 points 11 months ago (5 children)

it is a Liberal Democratic Republic, next time they ask.. say it slowly for them..

[–] TrueStoryBob@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Countries and their governments are never cut and dry. If we're getting technical (which I hope we are) then the United States of America is a presidential, constitutional representative democratic-republic that permanently federates and holds legal supremacy over a collection of similarly stylized democratic-republic states (along with other ~~colonies~~, territories, and possessions). All of this is technically correct, but it isvery hard to fit on a bumper sticker unlike the flashy ~~fascist~~ conservative think tank sound bite of "wE'rE a RePuBLiC nOt A dEmOcRaCy."

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[–] EatATaco@lemm.ee 29 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Sorry, add here and super lazy. I started reading the piece and within a few paragraphs I realized I was just reading a story about some couple I don't really give two shits about. Then I quickly scrolled up and down in the article and saw how long it was.

So can anyone tell me when it gets to the actual evidence that there is a brain drain? Make no mistake about it, my wife and I (my wife highly trained and me a software engineer) left a red state with our family partially, even only slightly so, because of state policies. So its not surprise it happens.

[–] TangledHyphae@lemmy.world 27 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'm a software engineer too. I was born in the deep south where even my grandmother disowned me because I told her people were going to die on January 6th because of trump, she said I was a liar and hung up and never answered my calls again. I moved to a purple state to balance out the MAGA extremists. The whole southeast is full of some of the least educated people in America, and the vast majority are red.

[–] Gabu@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They're filled with uneducated people because they're red states.

[–] nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 11 months ago

Seems like a bit of a hick-n-egg problem.

[–] bonobi@lemmy.world 24 points 11 months ago (3 children)

It started badly with that couple being the focus in a story-like section. Too long only to shift to discuss different reasons and examples of people leaving other states for various reasons. About 2/3 of the way through they finally get into demographics of college educated people, their economic benefits and new data on rates of leaving red states for blue states.

Eventually it was very good at describing the overall situation happening. But man, they didn't need to write so much about their personal lives. Especially at the beginning.

[–] ReallyActuallyFrankenstein@lemmynsfw.com 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's the classic "human interest" hook that probably works with most people. I didn't mind it, but yeah, it was long. The old a-spoonful-of-anecdote-helps-the-statistic-go-down method, but very poorly measured.

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[–] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The second I get a stable job, it's off to Colorado. While it's still blue.

[–] runner_g@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 11 months ago

Colorado has moved more blue over the last couple decades. Please ignore Boebert. All of us in the developed parts of the state do.

[–] JustZ@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago

It's intentional. Easier to it atrocities when there's nobody intelligent around.

[–] Nougat@kbin.social 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)
[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 34 points 11 months ago (5 children)

This attitude pisses me off for a number of reasons.

Not everyone can afford to move out of these states as they become steadily shittier. Smart people leaving further entrenches the conservative majority in those states, which makes it harder to flip states. It makes it easier for Republicans to control the Senate, and harder for Democrats to accomplish anything (not that they ever fucking want to). And when Republicans put policies in place that fuck over the people who can't leave, Democrats on the national level consider it to be a Red State Problem that they don't have to worry about doing anything about, because all the people who can't leave evidently deserve it for being outnumbered and not having enough money to move.

Thing is, Democrats' lack of solidarity is gonna come back to bite them in the ass. When their negligence has caused a permanent Republican majority in the Senate, those Red State Problems they didn't give a shit about are gonna be implemented at the national level. They're not gonna stay Red State Problems.

[–] NounsAndWords@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Not that it makes it any better, but a lot of those people who can't afford to move also can't afford to vote (time off work, travel to a polling station, time to actually look into what's going on)

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[–] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Control of states like Texas and Florida are permanently lost to conservatives. As long as conservative Governors have complete control over their Secretaries of State, they cannot lose their "elections". Remember, every conservative accusation is a confession.

[–] baronvonj@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I reject the premise that any state can be permanently lost. In 2020 Biden received more votes in Texas than he did in New York, and lost the state by only ~620k votes (under 6%), with 66 % voter turnout. Criminal Ken Paxton was going around saying that if he hadn't been able to shut down Harris County sending out mail-in ballots to everybody like they had intended, Trump would have lost Texas. If we can get voter turnout up into the 70s in the big 4 metro areas (Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio), we really could see the state go blue for state-wide and Federal offices. Unfortunately our Governor, Lt Governor, and Attorney General are all elected on mid-term years, and we have even shittier turnout in those years (dropped under 50% in 2022). But if we can get turnout up enough in a Presedential or US Senate year (both in 2024) then we can expect some serious national support in the next midterm to flip our state-wide offices.

[–] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

You are assuming the Texas Secretary of State, who is under complete control of the Governor's office, would allow a blue victory in Texas.

The Governor's appointed Secretary of State operates elections in Texas, including the tally and review of ballots, which is handled electronically by the SoS and their private helpers. There is simply no world where a conservative/fascist should be trusted to operate and tally their own elections. They even audit their own work when accused of inaccuracy or inpropriety. Every word uttered by a conservative is deception or manipulation. They lack veracity and are absolutely to never be trusted. Never.

I appreciate your optimism and I agree that we need greater voter turnout, but I guarantee you voter turnout will not save us if Texas conservatives are counting the votes. Trusting a conservative to be honest is a deadly mistake.

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[–] HowManyNimons@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Isn't that why they're red?

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