this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2023
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GenZedong

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This is not difficult to understand... (lemmy.ml)
submitted 10 months ago by blackpantherparty@lemmy.ml to c/genzedong@lemmygrad.ml
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It's not a complicated "conflict". Its obviously a genocide. Liberals who say both sides are to blame are participating in the massacres of Palestinians. It doesn't matter if hamas killed any number of Israelis. The so-called crimes that the Palestinians committed can never be equal to the crimes of their oppressors. Especially when their oppressors are killing them with a clear intent of genocide. It is disgusting that zionists hide behind their religion to justify what they do. All the liberals who defend them should get the wall.

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[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 55 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

smuglord By that logic, the United States isn't a country either.

Correct gigachad-hd

[–] Flamingoaks@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 10 months ago

by that definition not a single country in the americas is a country. maybe bolivia since they kinda sorta maybe have some indigenous leadership maybe the majority black countries like Hati and the Guyanas since black people were forced there and they didnt carry out the genocides, but besides those there is plenty of genocide and active oppression and occupation today and in the past that non of the other countries would be countries by that definition.

[–] taiphlosion@lemmygrad.ml 32 points 10 months ago (1 children)

No different than Amerikkka.

[–] Alunyanners@lemmygrad.ml 24 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Isn'trael is just Amerikkka 2

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 26 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The Nazis were Amerika 2, Israel is just the newer frontier of Amerika 1.

[–] Alunyanners@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

so Amerikkka 3? Amerikkka Reboot? Spinoff of Amerikkka?

[–] SadArtemis@lemmygrad.ml 17 points 10 months ago (2 children)

The latest in a long and tired series of AmeriKKKan spinoffs. There are the mainline sequels (Canada, Australia, NZ), the failed titles people don't talk enough about (French Algeria, British Kenya, Rhodesia, Apartheid South Africa, etc), there's the spinoffs who tried and failed to compete in their own Manifest Destiny ripoffs (Nazi Germany, Mussolini's Italy, imperial Japan), and there's also all the various attempts at being the next AmeriKKKa/white settler-colonial homeland in Latin America as well.

[–] taiphlosion@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 10 months ago

Lol this has to be the best description of settler colonial states I've ever read 💀

[–] the_post_oftom_joad@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

God that reads like yakkos world

[–] TankieReplyBot@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 10 months ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[–] IzyaKatzmann@hexbear.net 4 points 10 months ago

I want to say Amerikkka is Franke 2, while Haiti is Franke 3. Then Lebensrum is Amerikka 2 (Franke 2 * Amerikkka 2) which is... wait what?

[–] manuallybreathing@hexbear.net 5 points 10 months ago

are people finally ready to hear about the good word from our Lord and savior??

[–] tweeks@feddit.nl -1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Many countries are non-countries with this viewpoint. Through all of humanity land was taken over and over. Only the real first pioneers on new land could perhaps claim the boundaries (which in itself is a weird concept). We have no records on that in deep history.

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Most people aren’t recent settlers who commit genocide on still existing people. It would be one thing if Palestinians or First Nations people were gone, but they aren’t, and they could still get their land back. Otherwise I don’t know what you’re pointing to. We oppose all settler-colonialism, not all exploration or bloodshed in the same way. We seek to dismantle the worst and least historically based regimes.

[–] usernamesaredifficul@hexbear.net -1 points 10 months ago (2 children)

they are objectively a country they aren't a country with any moral legitimacy but they clearly are a country

[–] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 10 months ago (2 children)

No they aren’t.

They lack one of the four primary distinctions that make any country a country. They lack sovereignty over the land they control and occupy. An occupation is not a country, and much of the world recognizes that either Palestine and Israel but hold sovereignty, or Palestine holds sole sovereignty, the Israeli position is to shaky to be definitively stated as such.

For example, the United States also falls under this classification of being a settler colony, but they are still a country in that they satisfy all four requirements to be considered one. No matter how morally unethical the process was to accomplish those 4 main requirements were.

Israel can’t even do that.

[–] IzyaKatzmann@hexbear.net 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Might want to look into Wittgenstein's Language Games, can help clarify the purpose and function (and at times pointlessness, not saying that is the case here) of the sorts of pedantic and 'technically correct' dysentery folks seem to engage in.

[–] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

I’ll look into it! Sounds like a good read!

But I’m really not trying to be pedantic, it’s essentially just elementary school level politics that a country must have 1. Land, 2. Population 3. Government and 4. Sovereignty. It really isn’t negotiable.

[–] IzyaKatzmann@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Fair enough, why do you think people seem to get up in arms about it (say, as in this thread?)

[–] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 10 months ago

Israel defenders. Or weird pedantic nerds (myself included). Either or. But to be a weird pedantic nerd you at least have to be correct.

[–] Lurker123@hexbear.net 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

What does sovereignty mean in this context?

[–] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

The ability to exert recognized control over a defined territory.

Israel defacto satisfies this, but their territory is undefined (what borders do they go by)? The territory overlaps with what is rightfully considered Palestinian sovereign territory, and the Palestinian population is not recognized by the Israeli authority.

[–] Lurker123@hexbear.net 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

What does “recognized authority” mean?

Also apologies if I’m misreading your statement, but you seem to be saying that having disputed territory/borders renders you no longer a country. Surely that can’t be the case. For example, various island nations (e.g. Philippines, Japan, Brunei) have disputes with China (and each other) over whether certain islands are part of their territory. Yet these 4 entities are countries.

[–] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Not just disputed territories, territory disputes are very common and normal. But not when your entire country is disputed territory. The only other contemporary example of this would be Taiwan, which is not considered a country.

No one is disputing that the Hokkaido is Japanese, or Manila is Philippine, but all of Israel is disputed.

Also recognized authority means that the people living there, and international observers agree that the governing body of a territory is the one they identify with. The vast majority of Palestinians do not see the Israeli government as legitimate, and Israel doesn’t recognize Palestinians as citizens or as people.

[–] Lurker123@hexbear.net 0 points 10 months ago

Was China not a country prior to 1971, because Taiwan had the Chinese seat in the UN (it meets the international observers standard(?)) and the entirety of China was “disputed”?

As for recognized authority, isn’t it the case that for certain areas of Israel (e.g. certain areas within the 1948 UN partition plan, or 1967 borders) it meets the test you laid out? I.e. people living there agree that the Israeli government is the one that they identify with and international observers agree to recognize the Israeli government’s control over those areas? In that case, Israel would be a country with some disputed borders (I.e. everywhere outside that area with recognized authority).

[–] usernamesaredifficul@hexbear.net -2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

they have land, an army, and a governing bureacracy to my mind that makes them a country

[–] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 10 months ago (2 children)

To bad your mind has no bearing on what’s true or not 😂

[–] IzyaKatzmann@hexbear.net 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Dang, you used the solipsism card. rat-salute

[–] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

If one believes that their mind is all that is real or matters, then they are disconnected from reality.

Also thinking your mind is right is one of the most goofy statements, because that implies everyone else is always wrong lol.

[–] usernamesaredifficul@hexbear.net 1 points 10 months ago

it's a figure of speach

[–] usernamesaredifficul@hexbear.net -1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

well they are in the UN so I'm not the only one to think they are a country

Also I don't understand why we are calling them not a country it doesn't make any difference to anything call them a bloody cup if you want it doesn't change the reality of the situation that they are a settler colonialist state built on theft and murder

[–] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

They are in the UN because it aligns with western interests. Being on the UN doesn’t make you a legitimate country, and they can change their mind all the time.

Same as what happened with Taiwan and it no longer being considered a real country by the UN.

Is Taiwan a country? They check your boxes. The UN doesn’t think so though.

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Israel = occupying state

Palestine = country

[–] usernamesaredifficul@hexbear.net -1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

this is just stupid semantic games words mean what people use them to mean and if I went and asked anyone I know in real life they would say Israel is a country so it's a country

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

If you asked some random cracker they’d tell you Taiwan was an independent country too. Doesn’t make it true.

[–] usernamesaredifficul@hexbear.net -1 points 10 months ago

by the definition of a country needing to control all the territory it claims, which one user made in this thread, China and Argintina also don't qualify as countries

this is a stupid argument over semantics