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The title looks like it's trying to imply that the thiefs specifically targeted her, when the article makes it more clear that they likely just tried to steal the car not knowing it was from the Secret Service.
Gotta add that clickbait for the views 🙄
It could be just breaking in and it's a coincidence, could be that they thought they were in the car or were trying to threaten Biden's family. The fact that they got away from the secret service, who don't fuck around, is wild too.
Edit: I took out the part about d's being targeted in the article. I read the description.
smaller detail has to stay on task--protecting their charge, not chasing down suspects that are no longer an immediate threat. others will do the hunting.
where in the article does it say that democrats are being targeted? In addition, I feel user Ragdoll is correct that the title makes it seem worse that the situation actually was (though I guess there isn't an easier way to write the title), the SUV was not occupied when the criminals tried to break in. If you're targeting someone, you probably at least have an idea of who should be inside and whether they just stepped out of the vehicle or stepped in. I doubt the vehicle literally said Biden or "Biden's family inside" so I doubt it was a group of people walking around, and taking the opportunity to attack Biden or his family. In addition, the article indicates that car jacking have increased 40% in the area, so it really seems like it was a random car jacking.
I kind of think the bigger story is, why were Secret Service shooting at suspects trying to enter an empty vehicle? Unless there were firearms in the vehicle, feels a bit excessive to potentially kill 1 to 4 people over a car break in where no one's life was in direct danger.
Maybe there's more missing details that clear up the story so we'd have to wait and see.
I kind of think the bigger story is, why were Secret Service shooting at suspects trying to enter an empty vehicle?
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, isn't law enforcement taught to shoot first and then maybe ask questions later?
No no no, you're thinking of the Army. The police are trained to shoot first, cover up the shooting, find/make up past crime the victim did to justify the shooting, get acquitted by a grand jury, and receive a full pension later.
How would you have written it?
Not OP
Secret Service agents protecting Biden’s granddaughter open fire when 3 people pick the wrong SUV to streal.
That implies that there was a right SUV to steal.
Good. If you try to break into someone else's shit, you should reasonably expect to get shot at.
It is worrying to me that the supposedly highest trained security guards in the world couldn't actually hit their target. I would expect better in terms of both accuracy and fire discipline.
It is also worrying that if a citizen like you or me tried to defend ourselves and our property in the same way in much of these nation including DC, we would go to jail. I think we deserve the same rights as 'important people'.
Imagine living in a country where people are so obsessed with guns that everybody has guns and everyone is a potential threat or one insult away from doing a mass shooting. It's gotten so bad that America has become a parody of Grand Theft Auto, where you can actually feel safer as a character in a video game that glorifies violence and crime.
Your nation has gone beyond ape shit.
There isn't another developed nation in the world where gun violence is as big a problem as in America.
This ISN'T NORMAL.
Age-adjusted firearm homicide rates in the US are 33 times greater than in Australia and 77 times greater than in Germany. Gun violence accounts for over 8% of deaths in the US among those under age 20.
https://www.healthdata.org/news-events/insights-blog/acting-data/gun-violence-united-states-outlier
Imagine living in a country where people are so obsessed with guns that everybody has guns and everyone is a potential threat or one insult away from doing a mass shooting.
I don't know what nation you're from but America is nothing at all like this. Gun owners aren't like this.
People who don't understand American gun culture expect it's like GTA- everybody's strapped, fender-benders at traffic lights turn into firefights, don't dare tell anyone anything negative because they'll shoot you if they don't like what you say. This isn't at all the case though. Not even close.
Gun owners who carry guns look at it like a seat belt or fire extinguisher-- you hope to god you never need it, but if ever you do, having it might save your life. There is no action movie attitude of 'who do I shoot today?'. Gun owners recognize how serious a responsibility it is, and petty arguments rarely involve weapons fire, even in situations where everyone involved is armed.
We have a big problem with gun violence- but the majority of it is caused by our bigger problem of poverty and hopelessness in many areas. People turn to drugs, that are supplied by violent gangs who are all armed with illegal guns. Those guys commit the lion's share of our gun homicide.
Problem is, fixing it is a slow and expensive generational process. You need better schools, mental health care, child care, reproductive care, and real jobs for people to aspire to (not just flipping burgers). This costs billions.
If you want to criticize us for something- criticize us for spending billions/trillions on military (we have more military force than the next 10 nations combined, including all our major enemies) when our budgets are fucked and we can't even seem to take care of our own citizens. THAT is worthy of your criticism (and mine).
I'm not aware of another developed nation where getting cancer means you've got a good chance of going bankrupt. THAT ISN'T NORMAL and we should be fixing that shit.
What you say in this comment seems inconsistent with what you said in the previous one, namely that if you try to break into someone's stuff (e.g. an unoccupied parked car in this case) you should expect to be shot at. Going straight to deadly force to protect one's property is the bit people (at least, many non-Americans) think is not normal.
Finally a somewhat intelligent comment that isn't just restating a talking point.
You're (understandably) conflating as one position what is actually two
I think in general it should be legal to use deadly force to defend major property. IE I don't think it should be legal to shoot someone for stealing a pack of gum, but I think in many cases it should be legal to shoot someone for stealing larger items that make up a person's livelihood. I take this position not because I think human life is worth less than tools or cars (I don't feel that way) but because if you take any other position, you have a situation where the lawful owner of said property is legally required to basically sit there and watch while a criminal steals their shit.
Police aren't always seconds away. In much of the USA, police are tens of minutes or hours away.
What should be legal is one half of the coin, the other half is what I as a gun owner want to actually do.
To make an extreme example- I'm a strong advocate of the 1st Amendment (free speech). I believe I should have the right to take off all my clothes, cover the bare minimum in duct tape and cardboard, and walk down public streets telling all passers-by that I am the reincarnation of Napoleon and they should join my new army and help take over the world.
But while I support the right to do that, while I'd strongly advocate for that right, I have no desire to do such a thing myself.
As a gun owner, I have no desire to kill anyone ever. The same is true of virtually all gun owners I know, both online and off. (The one notable exception is a slightly nutty friend of mine who ended up joining the military and volunteered to go fight in Iraq/Afghanistan). There is nothing in my car that's worth taking a life for- even if the perpetrator is a lowlife criminal.
But I also take that as my choice to make for myself. Millions of gun owners would make the same choice- go on any gun forum or subreddit that deals with such things and you'll find few if any people suggesting that just shooting a guy who's stealing your unoccupied car is a good plan.
Does that make sense?
Thanks for the reply. It makes sense, though I would jump off at a different point from you. I tend to feel that if it comes to life vs property, even the life of a robber who is making others miserable and afraid, life generally wins no matter what the property is. That is, I don't myself feel like it is ever worth taking a life to preserve property, and I hope that if I found myself in the situation of being robbed of something dear to me, I would be able to let the property go and the robber live, painful though it would be. But I also don't believe ethical questions can arrive at a final answer. There's too much nuance in every situation so I wouldn't propose this as "the right answer". It's just how I currently feel on the matter.
Thankfully I'm not a legislator so I don't need to try to codify this into law, and I appreciate your position, which seems that be that although you probably wouldn't yourself shoot in this situation, you don't think others should be branded criminals for doing so. I don't want to pronounce on that matter, but just to observe that your position is probably more common in the USA than in, for example, many European countries, hence it seeming unusual to many of us non-Americans.
while I wouldn’t condemn in advance anyone who shoots in such a situation, I’d understand it better if they were afraid for themselves rather than just for their property.
And that is my position exactly.
Go on various self-defense subreddits or online forums, like /r/CCW, and you'll find a very similar attitude. There will be a couple who'd say 'shoot the thief' but the overwhelming majority take the position of 'you shoot to stop the threat, in self defense, only when necessary' and many would even take the position that it's a 'bad shoot' to shoot someone just breaking into a car. Confront them maybe, shoot them if they move to attack, but don't just shoot the guy in the back as he's stealing your MacBook.
The other issue is- while I'm not a legislator, I am a citizen of a representative democracy. So in a sense, it is my job to write the law, or at least, to make educated choices in what laws and policies I advocate for and against.
To that end, anyone making any law must consider that there will be times it backfires, doesn't apply correctly, etc. And whenever that happens, I'd always rather err on the side of giving the citizen defending themself or their property more leeway than providing additional protections to a criminal who's engaged in clearly illegal acts against said citizen (which necessarily means punishments for the citizen defending against said criminal).
Right. Except everybody leaves their fire extinguishers at home. And their fire extinguishers don't cause other fires. And they're not widely used by stupid incompetent people to cause harm either.
Your argument doesn't make any sense to any other normal sane person outside of the United States.
Using deadly force to kill someone should be hard to access and only be used when your own life is in danger. Which can be anytime, anywhere by anybody in the US because of how accessible it is.
Ending a life shouldn't be something anybody can do.
Good. If you try to break into someone else's shit, you should reasonably expect to get shot at.
In many other contexts this would be downvoted to oblivion on Lemmy.
Good. If you try to break into someone else’s shit, you should reasonably expect to get shot at.
In many other contexts this would be downvoted to oblivion on Lemmy.
In many other contexts, this is fucking insane.
Exactly right. If the article says "home owner shoots armed robber attempting to kidnap children" you'd have people losing their minds about guns and violence. Also people would be upset that the person owned a home...
Because a world where people are firing guns at each other all the time is INSANE, regardless of the context. Most of the developed world has figured this out.
The whole point of equality is that we’re all supposed to have the same rights and responsibilities.
Couldn't agree more. Biden gets to protect his family with guns. I think you and me should have that right also.
If I take a shot without being sure I'm gonna hit a criminal, I'm in big trouble. But if a cop/guard does the same, oh well.
I don't like double standards.
Area has an increase of car jackings, according to the article, so it was probably some unlucky thieves breaking into the unoccupied SUV.
I kind of think the bigger story is, why were Secret Service shooting at suspects trying to enter an empty vehicle? Unless there were firearms in the vehicle, feels a bit excessive to potentially kill 1 to 4 people over a car break in where no one’s life was in direct danger.
Maybe there’s more missing details that clear up the story so we’d have to wait and see.
I kind of think the bigger story is, why were Secret Service shooting at suspects trying to enter an empty vehicle?
My thoughts, from a layman. I could be totally off base here.
A secret service vehicle is likely armed and armored to the teeth, and the last thing anyone wants is 3 idiots cruisng around town in the equivalent of a soccer mom's tank. Also, it's probably bad enough that they have egg on their face from shooting at the suspect and missing; can you imagine the embarrassment of 3 secret service agents allowing one of their vehicles to be stolen by a group of randoms? There's also the fact that if they were successful, it would be a national security issue at the very least.
It's very likely that the windows are heavily tinted in order to make it impossible to see who or what is in the car, and the agents are likely trained to treat any attempt at breaking into or damaging the car as if the person under protection is inside of it, whether or not they actually are. Had the secret service not acted this way and this was actually a targeted attack, the bad actors would then know that the Secret Service doesn't respond the same way when the vehicle is empty, which is information that could be used in future attacks.
There is also the possibility that there's more to the story than we're being informed about, such as the possibility of a credible threat against Biden's granddaughter. If that's the case, those are details that we'll likely never, ever know about.
There is a chance that documents regarding schedules and other sensitive matters may be in the vehicle. A security leak of that nature could be life threatening to a bigger target. Alternatively, being stranded would leave Naomi vulnerable to kidnapping and assault.
Not saying the shooting was an appropriate response given the location, but the agents are right to be aggravated given the line of work and stakes involved.
Glad this was just a stupid GTA cosplay and not something much worse.
What a shit title.
Note to self: Don't fuck with Naomi's car
Did they blow any lungs out?
This is the best summary I could come up with:
WASHINGTON (AP) — Secret Service agents protecting President Joe Biden’s granddaughter opened fire after three people tried to break into an unmarked Secret Service vehicle in the nation’s capital, a law enforcement official told The Associated Press.
The agents, assigned to protect Naomi Biden, were out with her in the Georgetown neighborhood late Sunday night when they saw the three people breaking a window of the parked and unoccupied SUV, the official said.
The official could not discuss details of the investigation publicly and spoke to the AP on Monday on the condition of anonymity.
The three people were seen fleeing in a red car, and the Secret Service said it put out a regional bulletin to Metropolitan Police to be on the lookout for it.
U.S. Rep. Henry Cuellar of Texas was carjacked near the Capitol last month by three armed assailants, who stole his car but didn’t physically harm him.
In February, U.S. Rep. Angie Craig of Minnesota was assaulted in her apartment building, suffering bruises while escaping serious injury.
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