this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2023
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Mildly Infuriating

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Or by her participating that she is knowingly involving herself in a scam. Which, yeah, it's just books - but it's pretty obviously a pyramid.

No shame if you don't see how it's a scam, the cozy blanket and glass of wine are meant to throw you, and they chose 36 because it's a confusing enough number where you don't think too much about how it grows.

She gives one book to her upline. She then sends out post to 36 more people to give her 36 books. Each one of them then needs to find 36 people each, which is now 1296 people in that level if they each want 36 books. Thus the exponential pyramid. Of course there is zero way each of them will find that many people, let alone the levels below that. It's a scam that benefits those higher up, and the ones lower will likely not receive anything.

Of course she sees nothing wrong with that. She said "Sometimes I get books, sometimes I don't, that's just part of the game". Which... it's not a game when it's real money being passed around.

On top of that, whenever we see a pyramid scheme we should be stamping it out - hard. Folks, please spot the signs and point them out. Don't be afraid to comment on posts calling them out as scams.

Edit: To be clear the idea of a growing book exchange isn't a bad one, as explained in the comments though the way to make it not a scam is to make it 1:1. You either send a book and receive a book, or if they like the 36 number, you change it to "I'll send a book to whoever sends me a book!". Then it's a true book exchange.

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[–] Fisk400@feddit.nu 70 points 9 months ago (2 children)

At some point I feel it is just easier to go to the library. You need to return the books but they are also not random books the sender didn't want.

[–] reflex@kbin.social 26 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Local library might even have an ebook lending service, in which case, you wouldn't even need to go anywhere. And the ebooks automatically return themselves.

[–] TheOctonaut@mander.xyz 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

And the ebooks automatically return themselves.

FUCK I've been wasting so many USB drives

[–] tyrefyre@sh.itjust.works 6 points 9 months ago

USB drives? FUCK I’ve been printing them out on my inkjet to return.

[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 13 points 9 months ago (5 children)

not only that, but if you chat up the librarians, they can usually turn you onto new books you'll enjoy. I've... been steered wrong like twice. And then it was a 'well you're either gonna love it or not, so, try it and tell me.' kind of thing.

also, take a look at all the other stuff the libraries are doing.... (well, my local library is phenomenal.)

[–] thetreesaysbark@sh.itjust.works 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The aim of 'chatting up' seems different in a library :D

[–] mykl@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago

“Hey baby, are you a compelling new novel? Because I’d love to lose myself in your sheets. Like sheets of paper, you know, pages. I’m sorry, I’ll leave now.”

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[–] Empricorn@feddit.nl 36 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If you get a book back, it's not a scam because it's not designed for you to profit, either monetarily or materially. It's obviously misleading saying you'll get "up to" 36 books back, but that's not guaranteed and shouldn't be expected. If someone joined such an exchange (and it was trustworthy), they should think of it as a random book swap and expect to get a surprise book back in exchange for theirs. Anything extra is simply a bonus.

1 for 1: no one gets rich, and no one gets scammed, in theory...

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[–] CameronDev@programming.dev 33 points 9 months ago (1 children)

This is a bizarre scheme, i would not want to receive 1296 books, let alone however many the top gets.

[–] candybrie@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago

You don't. You just get the "up to 36". It's not a pyramid scheme where the goods all flow to the top.

[–] hrimfaxi_work@midwest.social 29 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

If they wanted me to read about their scam, they shouldn't describe it over a stressful image of red wine and an open flame resting on a 1x6 on a beige couch.

[–] MycoBro@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

I scrolled back up and was immediately overwhelmed with anxiety

[–] restingboredface@sh.itjust.works 5 points 9 months ago

I'm just waiting for the cat to jump up on it and screw up everything.

[–] adam_y@lemmy.world 26 points 9 months ago

You just know the 36 books you are going to get will be hotel bibles.

[–] evatronic@lemm.ee 20 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It's a twofold scam.

One, because the person is buying new, it's driving up sales to a bunch of "confirmed" addresses, which is an important metric for Amazon sales.

Two, the "random" destination is a second customer's address, and the friend is being an unwitting proxy in a drop shipping scheme.

[–] GentlemanLoser@ttrpg.network 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Wouldn't the drop shipping scheme require the scammers to know which books they need? In this case they are taking blind submissions, how would a drop ship operation work if you don't know what your possible inventory will be?

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[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 18 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

It's a scam that benefits those higher up, and the ones lower will likely not receive anything.

Who is higher up? Who benefits from you buying 1 book to send to a random person and how? Maybe I don't even buy a new one; I just send out an old one I already had. Or is there more to it than the image shows and you're supposed to be buying a book from a specific supplier?

This seems more like a "pay it forward" gift exchange than a scam.

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Pay it forward would be fine if it was 1-1, you gift a book to one person and you get one in return. The scam is that you get people in thinking if they gift one they'll get more than one back. Of course they probably won't, it'll quickly collapse.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Pay it forward things aren't 1-1 either. You're not guaranteed to even get anything back yourself most of the time. It's just to feel good about yourself. Like paying for the people behind you at a drive-thru.

But I can see how this gives the impression that you will.

[–] Primarily0617@kbin.social 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

but pay it forward can work in theory

this can't even work in theory because books entering the system 1 at a time and leaving the system 36 at a time requires 35 books to be conjured out of thin air

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I think the idea here is that 37 people send 1 book each and you could be the recipient of the other 36 you didn't send since you're all on the same list and everyone is choosing a recipient at random to send their book to.

[–] Primarily0617@kbin.social 3 points 9 months ago

how could you know the total participant count is 37 ahead of time if you're currently looking for sign ups

also, a book exchange of 37 people doesn't strike me as particularly "huge"

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 4 points 9 months ago

I think that's where it becomes a scheme instead of a generosity thing. The expectation that you could win out, that you will get more than you put in. Paying it forward you go in not expecting anything, but that's not the way this is structured.

[–] Monzcarro@feddit.uk 15 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I seen stuff like this before, and I think I know how it's supposed to work.

The "stranger" recruited the person who posted this to OP's friend as one of 6 people. Each of those 6 people recruit 6 others, who send the books to the stranger (their friend's friend), hence the 36. OP's friend will be asked to recruit 6 people in turn, and each of those recruit 6, who then send books to OP's friend.

I think it's a bit dodgy that they're being asked to buy new, but I'd be more concerned that these kind of schemes can be used to feel out who's likely to fall for more sinister scams, as people feel they're getting a lot back for very little.

Plus, it only takes a few levels (13 if my maths is right) before there are more (far more!) recruits needed than people on earth.

[–] livus@kbin.social 4 points 9 months ago

It's a chain letter.

Your math is correct.

[–] uphillbothways@kbin.social 14 points 9 months ago (4 children)

It's a mild scam. More like chain letters used to be than Amway or something with a structure putting a bunch of wealth in the hands of one person. But, you're right. It's stupid, even if mostly harmless.

[–] thetreesaysbark@sh.itjust.works 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

As someone else said, it may be to see who's likely to fall for more sinister scams, or a phishing scam to get people's addresses etc

[–] BruceTwarzen@kbin.social 5 points 9 months ago

There is an large electronic store near me. At the cash register they have "mystery boxes" where you can buy random shit that you don't know what you get, ranging from 10 to idk, 500 dollars. I always imagine every time someone buys irl lootcrates, they end up on some sort of list, because these people would buy anything.

[–] nulluser@programming.dev 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

This is what I was thinking at first. This just looks like classic chain letter.

But on rereading, it appears that the person at the top is controlling who's sending books to who, and might even be dictating where you buy the book from, which is definitely a scam.

My guess on how this works. Upon DMing the person in control, you're instructed to buy a book from a specific website (that they control) and have the book shipped directly from there to the "stranger.". However, "stranger" doesn't actually exist, no books are ever sent, and the person running this whole scam is just pocketing the money rubes spend on "books".

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[–] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 13 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I think that's more of a ponzi scheme that a pyramid scheme

[–] Pregnenolone@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago
[–] lewdian69@lemmynsfw.com 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I think I'm confused. She's not giving one book to her upline she's sending it to some random. Then the 36 books are from strangers that she hasn't put any work into finding according to the post. That's not a pyramid scheme... If anything the original person who posted the picture is just doing a whole bunch of coordinating and work but your friend isn't. There are either details missing you haven't shared that contradict what this picture says or you are reading this wrong.

[–] Moonrise2473@feddit.it 8 points 9 months ago

"random" = upline

If everyone is giving just one book, how can get up to 36 books maximum. Technically, 0 books received still counts under "36 books maximum"

[–] vikinghoarder@infosec.pub 8 points 9 months ago

This can be a marketing/scam strategy, you send a new book, and they send their marketed(marketing) or old (scam) book to your supposed secret friend, then re-sell your new book.

[–] Tarkcanis@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I kinda like this idea; on a one-to-one basis where the maths works out that is.

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[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

How is moment being made in this? I don’t get it. It’s books- not money.

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[–] username_unavailable@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago
[–] livus@kbin.social 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I ended up buying someone 36 books myself, to compensate them for me refusing to participate in this chain letter/pyramid scheme.

[–] LemmyKnowsBest@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)
[–] Deadeyegai@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

So its the publisher reaping all of the $$? Peddling pirated books? 36 must be some of break even point for the lower levels but who knows

[–] Enkers@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago

To me, the 36 just seems like a semi-plausible number that's both enough to be enticing and not so much to be daunting or discrediting. I don't think there's any real foundation in the scheme, It's simply a marketing decision.

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