this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2023
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They exchanged text messages and emojis. Brief status updates with words of encouragement. A picture of the beloved family dog "Tutsi."

Until no more messages came.

And then, Cindy Flash, an American, and her Israeli husband Igal vanished into the violence, presumed kidnapped by Hamas.

Four days after Hamas attacked Israel, more than 100 Israelis and potentially dozens of foreign nationals are thought to be held captive in the Gaza Strip. At least 14 U.S. citizens have been killed and an unknown number are still unaccounted for.

Flash, 67, originally from St. Paul, Minnesota, is one of them. She lives in Kfar Aza, a kibbutz in southern Israel near Gaza, where some of the most harrowing and grisly stories have been emerging during the last few days.

"They are breaking down the safe room door," Flash said in one of her final messages to her daughter Keren, 34. "We need someone to come by the house right now." She had been communicating with her parents from a few houses away.

Keren described her mother, who worked as an administrator in a local college, as someone who had the "sweetest biggest heart," who everyone knew and loved, and who had spent a lifetime advocating for the rights of Palestinians, including those who live in Gaza where she may now be held.

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[–] TinyPizza@kbin.social 50 points 1 year ago (4 children)

This seems more like an example of wrong place wrong time because nowhere in the article does it state that they were specifically targeted. What it does say is that they lived right next to the fence ~~and that they and their neighbors both had safe rooms. To me, when you (and your neighbors) feel the need to build a fortified room to protect yourselves during a potential attack that says~~ this area is potentially very dangerous.

Also, stop conflating the Palestinian people with Hamas. Not all Russians are committing war crimes in Ukraine. Not all Americans stormed the US capital on J6. Not all Saudis were on planes on 9/11. We do not need to further dehumanize ANY of the people who are now suffering through this now and the MANY who are continuing to have suffering brought upon them.

Nobody can excuse attacks on civilian populations for revenge. This goes both ways. And whether or not this poor sweet lady and her husband are still alive, I'm sure she would be equally abhorred that her life's work is being used as an excuse to undo the very thing she worked towards.

Edit: I've been informed all homes in Israel must have safe rooms by law.

[–] donuts@kbin.social 41 points 1 year ago (3 children)

nowhere in the article does it state that they were specifically targeted.

Basically nobody was specifically targeted. Hamas simply flooded in and started raping, murdering, destroying and taking hostages indiscriminately. People from various countries and religions, old women, children and babies, even pro-Palestinians advocates like these people. It was straight up terrorist madness, and now innocent people in Palestine are suffering as a result. A textbook cycle of violence.

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[–] iByteABit@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

Sadly most people are way too fucking dumb and uneducated to have nuanced opinions, but you can't blame them fully when they're so busy working all day that they can't afford to spend time reading and learning from quality sources

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[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 year ago (9 children)

I really don't understand why people decided to live in these kibbutz right next to the Gaza border and never realize that this might happen.

It's like sitting right on the very edge of the shoulder of a very busy highway. Eventually you will be hit by a fast moving car.

It's disputed territory with the potential of becoming a war zone at any moment and people decided to buy expensive real estate and build beautiful homes next to impoverished people that have nothing.

And we should be surprised that this happened?

What the Palestinians did was terrible ... but we should all be reading the headlines with a lot of history and context. None of it is justified by any side ... but at the same time, none of it is a surprise.

[–] ArmokGoB@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Seoul is 11 km from the North Korean border. People just assume things won't go wrong until they do.

[–] AWistfulNihilist@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

People in South Korea are not regularly bombed in rocket attacks, SK does not require houses have steel-reinforced concrete bunkers.

The last time a North Korean killed a South Korean was a long time ago, I don't know that I would call these situations comparable.

If NK did start shelling Seoul and attacking civilians near the DMZ, that would legitimately be unexpected.

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago

It's not like you have a lot of options in a small country.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Yesterday on TV over here, they showed a satellite picture of an area of Hamas' incursion across the border were you can see both sides of the border line and the border itself.

And the commentator said: "Here you can see the destruction caused by the attack"

And it's only after a few seconds of looking at the area that looks like a junkyard and a mess and thinking "yes indeed, it's all trashed" that you notice that actually the black smoke is all on the opposite side of the border, the one with lots of space and nature, with little villages, which would look idyllic if not for the smoke.

The overpopulated slum on the left side that looks like a junkyard on a satellite picture is the Gaza side and just a wall away on the right side is this idyllic area with lots of space and nature, a place were the people from the left side will never be allowed to live or even just visit.

How could anybody ever imagine that it would be safe to live in spacious homes and comparative luxury, right next an area were people are forced to, since the day they were born, live in what's basically an overcrowded slum?

[–] HubertManne@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

wow. this is the best comment I have seen on it. I feel sorta similar. Whats been done is just monsterous but man the situation is so ridiculous and I wish the US and the rest of the world had done many different things post ww2.

[–] donuts@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's a common misconception that Israel and Palestine were created post WW2 but the roots go all the way back to turn of the 20th century. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_for_Palestine

People like to blame America for all things, but this region has been under conflict and conquest for literally thousands of years. It was controlled at points by Egypt, Babylon, Assyrians and Persia, In biblical times it was essentially tribal (Israelites, canaanites, samaratins, philistines who were in conflict with israelites...) until the Roman Empire took over. Then Rome broke up into two and it become part of the (Eastern Roman) Byzantine Empire, then after Muhammad's death it was conquered by the Muslim Caliphate, then taken under control of the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire. Religiously it has been Jewish, Christian and Muslim and I think has historical significance to all 3. I'm sure I've left a bunch of stuff out because I'm no historian.

It's one of the most complicated and protracted conflicts in history, and the people who want to make this out to be simple are either plain dumb or have some kind of alterior motive.

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[–] andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

Why it should happen to us, exactly? People build up tolerance to accept this kind of gambling-as-a-routine, especially if the rules are obfuscated and conditioned by other things. Consider now how suicidal is a process of driving a car to work – but you can't avoid it this morning and there are many safeguards at place to make it less risky. They just go with it, they rationalize it before they stop giving a fuck. And it is layered, as many parties approved such a thing to be.

Politicians push to approve construction there and guarantee it's safe because their career depends on it, like one of safety-promising Benj. Companies buy a plot and develop this place into housing because high risk => high reward and FOMO. Young people and re-pats buys them because they need a house, it's their best affordable option and two other parties said it won't get them killed. Such a snowball, growing bigger at each turn, and each next party has less agency there. And it could be stopped at any of them, I guess?

I've seen that with Crimea: occupiers waving a hand to their rich oligarch friends in the biz, companies taking random bits of land to develop, building apartments in the middle of nowhere, people buying property there. I knew some of the latter. They had a fascinating list of reasons why to buy it and none of them thought that there's any chance of water and energy limiting, escalation and, for sure, Ukrainian advancement. But at the time they've settled there, these phantom risk were outweighted by Crimea's good climate and them not getting any housing otherwise for that price.

Frugal person pays twice, as our saing goes.

[–] the_wise_wolf@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I was under the impression that the border was extremely well guarded and secure. At least at some point it must have been. It seems like the government recently moved troops to the west bank in order to protect settlers instead. https://lemmy.world/post/6616736

[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It still begs the question.

Who would want to buy real estate and settle into a home right next to a militarized border that separates you from a country that has many individuals that want to murderously destroy you and your entire family? In an area that might at any time turn into a war zone?

[–] the_wise_wolf@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago

I guess that applies to the whole of Israel, though. Gaza is the most dangerous hot spot right now. But I don't know if that has always been the case. Hamas came to power in 2006. I guess people just carried on, hoping for the best and trusting in the security forces. But honestly all of that is speculation. My point was just, that the reasons for people living there are complicated.

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[–] MxM111@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Hamas was elected in 2006. The destruction of Israel was clear on its agenda. They are representing people of Gaza.

[–] jack55555@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I voted for a way different party in 2006 than I do now. Opinions change.

[–] MxM111@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

Do you honestly think if free elections were held today in Gaza, (or week ago, does not matter) then Hamas would not be re-elected?

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[–] TigrisMorte@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hamas isn't in any way working for Palestinian rights. Hamas is not a synonym for Palestinian.

[–] tigerhawkvok@startrek.website 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

As an elected government, it's a synonym for "most of Palestine". AFAIK it's direct representation with no gerrymandering fuckery like the states to make it only questionably true.

[–] TigrisMorte@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Pootie was elected in a land slide in Russia. Kimie was Elected unanimously in North Korea. Pooh Bear, oops, sorry, Xi was elected by a large majority. Nyet 'n Yahoo was voted into power by a good margin. Fat Joffrey was elected by mostly empty land. None of those leaders represent anyone but themselves.

You are simply trying to justify your bigotry.

[–] Nalivai@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ceausescu won his last elections with 96% approval. In the same year he escaped the capital, was captured, sentenced to death, and immediately executed, which promted a coutry-wide celebration

[–] TigrisMorte@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago
[–] Historical_General@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

Netanyahu funded Hamas against the PLO to stop the two state solution. Fault lies for most things with Israel and the Mossad.

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Hamas isn't Palestine. They don't represent the Palestinian people. It's not because Hamas took her that she was betrayed by Palestinians.

[–] bufalo1973@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The more I read the more it seem Hamas works for Bibi.

Bibi was having a popularity problem. Now it doesn't matter.

The targets are mostly from the opposition to Bibi.

This gives him the excuse he was waiting to level Gaza.

Too many timely coincidences.

But maybe I'm just being paranoid.

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Right? It's just too convenient.

[–] Historical_General@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Netanyahu and the Mossad literally funded Hamas against the left secular PLO. They have the blood of innocents on their hands.

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do you have any sources about this? I wouldn't have any trouble believing you, but I always prefer when there's facts to look up.

[–] Historical_General@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Good instinct to ask for sources, but I'd add that one can never underestimate the depravity capable by an apartheid, genocidal state.

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago

Oooooooooohhhhh wow! Holy shit.

Amazing article. Thank you so much.

[–] Elric@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They enjoy very wide support amongst the populace so they do represent many Palestinians, probably a majority?

[–] Historical_General@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

Because they control the infrastructure, hospitals etc. This is the result of Israel assassinating other political leaders and funding Hamas. Netanyahu and the Mossad did it on purpose. Its their own fault.

[–] avater@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] Son_of_dad@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yet Israel government=all Israelis is fine to you

[–] Maalus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The article clearly states "advocate for Palestinians, then Hamas came for her" like it's some "voting for the face eating leopards" situation. It's a valid distinction. Also, no, the Israeli army isn't all Israelis.

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