this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023
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solarpunk memes

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The first sign of civilization in a culture (slrpnk.net)
submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by j_roby@slrpnk.net to c/memes@slrpnk.net
41 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

[Picture of text that reads:]
Years ago, anthropologist Margaret Mead was asked by a student what she considered to be the first sign of civilization in a culture. The student expected Mead to talk about fishhooks or clay pots or grinding stones.

But no. Mead said that the first sign of civilization in an ancient culture was a femur (thighbone) that had been broken and then healed. Mead explained that in the animal kingdom, if you break your leg, you die. You cannot run from danger, get to the river for a drink or hunt for food. You are meat for prowling beasts. No animal survives a broken leg long enough to heal.

A broken femur that has healed is evidence that someone has taken the time to stay with the one who fell, has bound up the wound, has carried the person to safety and has tended the person through recovery. Helping someone else through difficulty is where civilization starts, Mead said

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[–] Sotuanduso@lemm.ee 83 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Wholesome, but not a meme.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 33 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It's a meme in the original sense of the word meme:

an element of a culture or system of behavior passed from one individual to another by imitation or other nongenetic means.

I think we should share those memes too.

[–] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 20 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I think there could be a place for that, but the sidebar for this community does say 'When you need a laugh', so maybe we could create another community for that kind of meme?

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Or just change the sidebar description? But this is something for the mods of this community to decide. If they think this thread is off topic they can easily delete or lock it.

[–] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 1 points 11 months ago

Fair enough, and it did get quite a lot of upvotes to be fair.

[–] Sotuanduso@lemm.ee 5 points 11 months ago

Your shirt is a meme.

[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Also, she never said that and humans aren't the only animals who care for their injured. Pretty much a fail all around.

[–] Anamnesis@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

Had always thought this was real but it seems like it wasn't.

https://www.sapiens.org/culture/margaret-mead-femur/

[–] vettnerk@lemmy.ml 65 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The takeaway, i guess, is that US healthcare only counts as civilized to those with money.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.ml 10 points 11 months ago

They'll fix your broken bone, they just won't provide any rehab if you don't have insurance.

[–] XbSuper@lemmy.world 39 points 11 months ago

Sir, this is a meme page.

[–] lemmus@lemmy.world 34 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That’s why Libertarians haven’t taken over the planet.

[–] Mammal@lemmy.world 29 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Very true!

"Me first! Fuck you! Every man for himself!" is a terrible basis for a society.

[–] ComradePorkRoll@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 months ago

But isn't that just survival of the fittest? /s

[–] niktemadur@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Also most are armchair weekend libertarians, nurturing their thousands and one prejudices.
"Libertarianism for me (muh guns! freydum!), not for thee (minority equality, gay equality, women's equality, etc.)."

[–] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 26 points 11 months ago

I'm down for the sentiment, but this certainly isn't a meme.

[–] psivchaz@reddthat.com 23 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Me: Reads this and feels temporarily good.

Comments: This isn't a meme, it's fake, healthcare is expensive, murder exists.

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

Maybe the person with the broken leg got it from jumping off a cliff to kill themself, but survived, and was kept alive by another because they were their favorite sex slave.

[–] j_roby@slrpnk.net 3 points 11 months ago

You pretty much summed up my entire experience with this post. Thank you. I see you, and appreciate you.

[–] ProcurementCat@feddit.de 16 points 11 months ago (2 children)

This story is a myth by the way.

[–] Delicious_Tomatoes@beehaw.org 5 points 11 months ago

I was gonna say, members of a group caring for one another is a sign of a social species. Like, we have a sample size of one species becoming "civilized" but I can't imagine a civilization developing in a species that isn't social. But there are plenty of present and historical examples of this kind of social behavior without civilization.

[–] Sunroc@lemmy.world -5 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] ProcurementCat@feddit.de 21 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

You should've used the second Google result: https://www.sapiens.org/culture/margaret-mead-femur/

To start, there is no reliable evidence that Mead said what has been attributed to her. Internet sleuths have traced the earliest reference to this anecdote to the 1980 book Fearfully and Wonderfully Made, in which the surgeon Paul Brand writes that he was “reminded of a lecture given by the anthropologist Margaret Mead, who spent much of her life studying primitive cultures.”

But when Mead was asked directly in an interview, “When does a culture become a civilization?,” her documented response was very different. “Looking at the past,” Mead replied, “we have called societies civilizations when they have had great cities, elaborate division of labor, some form of keeping records. These are the things that have made civilization.”

[–] ZzyzxRoad@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago

The author is challenging the attribution to Mead, as well as the definition of civilization that is used. They concede only a few paragraphs down that there are many cases of healed fractures found by anthropologists which imply that people took care of one another, as well as there having been interpersonal violence.

I wouldn't say that the entire thing is false just because it's been turned into a falsely attributed quote.

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

that's a very strange definition of civilization

[–] stepanzak@iusearchlinux.fyi 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Not a meme

[–] Akasazh@feddit.nl 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I'm on the fence.

I'm in the 'social media microblogging' is not a meme camp as well.

However I find the message in this one worth distributing, which is technically what a meme is all about

[–] wahming@monyet.cc 2 points 11 months ago

Every meme starts somewhere

[–] Madison420@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Also geese will wait with injured friends so that's not all animals.

[–] angrystego@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

Well, I guess it's all animals that don't develop the first sign of civilization as defined in the quote. Congratulations, geese, you got over the threshold!

[–] Umbrias@beehaw.org 4 points 11 months ago

So it's cute and could have some relative usefulness but there are some problems with this mythical anecdote:

  • animals heal broken legs all the time. It's not a guaranteed death sentence, if it were there actually wouldn't even be a way to repair it at all. See: brain, lungs, heart. All things which can very slightly repair themselves from minor injuries, not catastrophic ones.

  • bipeds are worse off, but quadrupeds can generally manage, poorly, with only three legs. There are exceptions, but that's one of the main benefits of having four legs.

  • a broken femur can already be a death sentence regardless of early medicine. Very easy to bleed out, the actual maiming is the least of your worries.

[–] JokeDeity@lemm.ee 2 points 11 months ago

I'm with you until you say bound up the wound.

[–] emeralddawn45@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I mean I'm not saying I could, (also not saying I couldn't) but also isn't it conceivable that a person managed to crawl back to their cave where they had food stored, bound their own leg, and was lucky enough to avoid infection? Nothing about a healed leg implicitly demands intervention from other beings.

[–] Oszilloraptor@feddit.de 9 points 11 months ago

They must have had food stored for a few weeks to months, in a time before preservation techniques.