The fact that these things came out after banning plastic straws shows nobody knows what the fuck they’re doing.
this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2023
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straws aren't even the problem. The largest source of plastic in the ocean is fishing nets and discarded fishing equipment.
The interesting question becomes where these are coming from and why. Which countries?
Straws may not be the problem, but I remember straws being washed up all over the beach.
I'm not sure what you are saying. Straws, like plastic carriers were a well-established product that could be beneficially regulated tp reduce plastic waste. Single-use vapes were a new product category that pretty much came out of nowhere and are now likely to be regulated. Do you want a general purpose ban on every single-use item containing plastic? Not a bad idea, but it would be a big, quite radical change to the way people lived their lives - no biros etc.
Straws a literal drop on the ocean compared to what corporations are doing to the oceans.
I am happy to have paper straws if it helps the planet, but they chose the smallest thing they could do and as always put the onus on the consumers and not the producers.
they chose the smallest thing they could do
They initially chose a thing that would have marginal impact on consumers' behaviour, yes. Starting in October 2023, people will no longer be able to buy plastic cutlery, plates, bowls, trays, balloon sticks, and other items.
Which items would you nominate for an immediate ban in addition?
Regarding consumers v producers - they literally just stopped producers selling this stuff. What do you mean?
I would shift the onus on the people buying the shit (consumers) to the people making it (producers).
Maybe we could look at fishing nets, plastic bottles etc.
To be clear I am all for doing more for the planet but I take issue with the blame being misplaced on consumers when the producers are polluting orders of magnitude more than we are.
Stopping a producer selling it in a country is putting the onus on the producer.
I don't think the narrative of producer v consumer is particularly helpful. Any regulation that hits the producer will also hit the consumer.
I'd be all for a ban on plastic bottles, but you need proper glass bottle deposit schemes in place first
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Most of the world didn't use single use plastics until the last fifty years, we could get rid of it all easily, we simply choose not to.
Sure, we coudl go back to washing powder in boxes, using fountain pens, go back buying fruit loose from greengrocers, make our own yogurt, visit a creamery with a glass jar to buy cream, and get rid of most ready meals. I think "easily" is rather under-estimating the level of disruption it would cause the average person
Tbh I think you are overestimating the disruption, lots people do already buy washing powder in cardboard boxes(it's also a better product BC you buy it in bigger volumes and you can measure out the exact right amount for your machine and water hardness), picking your fruit from a loose box in the supermarket and putting into your shopping cart in a paper bag or a bag you bring yourself is also super normal, why would you have to make your own yougert? Why would you need to go to a creamry for cream rather than use the supermarket glass bottle return scheme used for milk? I feel like I should note that there a lot of food-safe resins and waxes that can liquid-proof containers that aren't actualy prohibitively expensive but a bit more expensive and currently less widely produced than plastics. But considering what we're doing to the planet that sacrifice is negligable
Yeah the pre-portioned and plated ready meals you buy from the fridge section would probably stop being thing, but there also food-bar things that serve a very similar product
Obviously life would change a bit and it wouldn't be painless but I really think people overestimate it and something absolutely has to change
Thank you for this optimistic take. Appreciated and thought provoking
Have you never seen a cardboard carton of juice or milk?
Yes. And for the most part, those are lined with a very thin plastic skin - which is what makes recycling difficult. I didn't mention milk or juice because glass bottles would be the obvious answer.
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Or even cares. As usual cheap Chinese tat (other third world tat markets are available) and its lapped up here without a thought.
at least nobody’s vaping out of straws
You might not be!
This whole government makes a whole lot more sense once you come to the realisation that they're all mentally challenged in the literal sense. It wouldn't surprise me if they couldn't even conceptualise how the two things are related.
Nah, that does a disservice to both mentally challenged people, and lets the Tories off for how cruel they really are
You can still be cruel and mentally challenged.
They got in to power because of privilege. Those with privilege and intelligence have long since abandoned the Tory party, so you're just left with the bottom of the barrel; the privileged and dim - it's no wonder this country is failing.
It's like that whole encryption thing they're failing to push through; the fact that "this is an embarrassingly stupid and unworkable idea" never gets brought up just goes to show. They don't even know what encryption is, it's a joke.
Dude, they aren't lacking in intelligence, they're educated and very capable people. They don't give a shit about plastic pollution, they just want to try and reduce the impact of protesters. They don't give a shit about how bad their encryption law would be for people and businesses because it would give them more power and a stronger chilling effect so they can suppress dissidents. They are not lacking in mental faculties whatsoever, they are playing you for a fool.
I know they don't care but they're also not very intelligent. I thought that would be non-controversial. The capitalist class that put them there might be intelligent but not the politicians themselves.
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I'm a long time vaper, it's got me off the cigs, and I use a reusable tank because it's what I've always used but it's obviously better for the environment and cheaper.
I do support clamping down on disposables because of the waste and these ones seem to be the ones that get into the hands of kids.
However, the whole scare thing about ecigs has always looked like a massive diversion tactic when actual cigarettes are still on sale. I mean it won't happen because it's kerching for the government. But I see literally thousands more discarded cigarette butts than I do vapes round our way.
As an old fart. 53. I have to say. The number of cig butt's is way lower then it was in the past.
Really nothing more then me stating an observation. But during the 80s. And into the 90s. Throwing butt's on the road was just what folks did.
At least now most folks have the idea it is bad. So there is some notacible attempt to limit it.
As for vapes. I sorta agree. Its an easy visable attack point.
But like all disposable plastic. It needs to be the manufacturers who are held responsible more then the users. At least this seems to be doing that.
But we have plenty of plastic alternatives. It's just the cost that stops corps using them. If disposable plastics as a whole are banned. Then the corps are forced to look for cheaper production methods. And to swap.
That said. I don't smoke. (Did for a while way back)
Are the foam like filters in cig butt's made from a plastic product. Like most other foam. Or is it biodegradable. I habe no idea. On phone atm. (Hence typos) So will do a search tonight.
To be fair, discarding cigarette butts is less wasteful of resources than discarding single-use vapes though, isn't it? ~~Also aren't cigarette butts 100% biodegradable and renewable nowadays?~~ Edit: No, they're not at all, they're also bad for the environment. Clearly disposable vapes are individually more wasteful though
Clearly disposable vapes are individually more wasteful though
I do agree that disposable vapes are a horrible idea. But they're equivalent to a large number of cigarettes so you can't just say "bigger than a single butt therefore worse". At least they're recyclable in theory, if not often in practice.
This is not a defence of disposables. They're a ridiculous thing, designed for impulse purchasing by children. Fully support a ban.
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People discard these things on the floor.... wtf... what amount of brain cells must you be lacking to think thats fine? How fucking numb must your mind be to not even consider that the vape cant just be chucked to the ground when finished?
Where i work theres an unofficial smoking area and its littered with single use vapes. Fuck putting them ina bin like the article says people do.
And wtf 1% flush them down the toilet?
So many people are just so fucking stupid it destroys all hope i have for humanity.
I know im being dramatic but it is seriously soul destroying.
Just stop and think for 1 fucking second.
I really can understand the frustration.
Always thought the same about people throwing away their cigarette buds. These are probably the same people.
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Long time vaper here, fuck these things. Fucking leds, pcbs, type c ports, lithium batteries, all packed in to a device intended to be entirely disposed of when the juice runs out. So wasteful.
Why would a disposable vape have a USB C port?
Can usually charge them, they last 1-3 weeks from what I've seen
Isn't the world running out of resources for batteries?
I'm a long term vaper as well but I'm going to be honest I do get the appeal of the disposables. Ludicrous regulation has made proper vapes so ridiculously annoying to use for an average person that it's no wonder people just turn to the easiest option.
The 2ml tank cap and having to mix your own nicotine are both annoying and impractical. There's also been a marked decline in the quality of coils and the tanks themselves since that law came into affect, with no actual benefits.
I had to switch to an RDA tank because the terrible coils on offer now were costing me a fortune, I'd gone from using 1 every couple of weeks to having to change them every two days. I've tried tons of different tanks and coils but it seems like it's just a fundamental design flaw, 2ml of juice just isn't enough to keep the coils wet if you use a decent mod.
RDA tanks are fine if you work from home like I do but it leaks all over my handbag when I go anywhere, so if you don't work at home it's just not a good solution.
Just curious, are lithium batteries worse than other disposable batteries that end up in landfill? In know many are Nickle cadmium, but aren't just as many ALSO lithium batteries?
(Here in Australia at least there are means of "safely" disposing of batteries, and nicotine vapes are in-theory not for sale).
Lithium batteries aren't exactly great if they still hold a charge, they risk violent combustion if damaged/pierced.
The problems really occur when they end up in amongst trash heaps/recycling plants as they can ignite causing huge plastic/rubbish fires that smolder internally for days before suddenly going up.
IIRC there are other metals included in lithium batteries that you don't want leaking into the ground water (lithium isn't great, but heavy metals can be pretty awful)
Some places take the vapes, but afaik there is no consistent program, this is compounded by a lot of the people I see using these vapes are children/young teens, which means a lot of them don't end up in the bin, but literally just thrown on the ground.
On top of that, lithium ion batteries aren't designed as disposable batteries. In devices like vapes, they should be getting upwards of 400 charge cycles before being considered spent. Some get more, some get less, but in "disposable" vapes, they get one. It's just horrifically wasteful!
Cheers for the thoughtful response. Producing large amounts of harmful waste seems to be a larger societal issue, not something specific to lithium batteries, but I can see the part about fires being of particular concern. I still find the demonization of vaping in particular to be a bit odd.
The other thing is that lithium is a finite, hard to get resource that we have a lot of use for, and typically not used in any other mass consumed disposable product.
So even aside from the above general issues with disposing lithium, disposable vapes are particularly wasteful, because people aren't throwing out their phone battery every other day, for example.
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The problem is there is no real infrastructure to recycle the stuff so it just ends up in landfills with the associated pollution from discarded batteries.
There are processes to recover raw materials from Li-Ion cells: freeze them to decrease electrolytic reactions, shred them and separate the bits mechanically (using computer vision) and chemically. Very expensive and risky.
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This is the best summary I could come up with:
The findings come after a series of calls for a ban, with councils and leading paediatricians among those demanding action on vapes because of health and environmental concerns.
Scott Butler, the executive director at Material Focus, said the “problem with single-use vapes has gotten further out of control” since the organisation published research last year.
Discarded vapes create environmental waste and pose a threat to public safety, because their lithium batteries can become flammable when crushed.
This all means that too often local authorities are being burdened with the major operational and financial headaches associated with what is now the fastest growing and most dangerous waste stream in the UK, single-use vapes.”
He said there needed to be “immediate, significant and transparent vape industry voluntary action” and called for the word “disposable” to be dropped from marketing of the products.
“Until single-use vape producers, importers and retailers act to genuinely comply with and finance their legal environmental responsibilities then the calls for banning the sale of them will only strengthen,” he added.
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