Asklemmy

I've learned to walk away. I used to bite, hard. But now I might give them the accurate answer then leave their tirade and maybe even block them. I have this lovely wife. Great kids. I'd rather put down phone and see what they're up to than engage with some guy online who probably doesn't even whipe their own arse.

An interesting thing about Lemmy is that if you delete your comment, it also nukes every comment underneath it. So if you say something, and then people are giving you a hard time about it, and then you go out for a walk and are still annoyed about it, you can self-destruct and take them with you (this isn't based on a true story of course, but if it was, I'd say it's terrible in that it discourages engagement and deletes someone else's actually-correct info, but it's a good way to get over it all)

I think that, in the moment, online arguments can feel extremely real and heated. But, then you go out and do other things, and it becomes less and less important over time.

Of course, then you come back and find a notification from one of those morons you've been arguing with, and then you're right back in it. So I guess just practice? Like, just keep reminding yourself that it doesn't actually matter, even if it feels like it does.

Also, shrooms help. I remember I got into a heated snit with some idiot online an hour or so before eating a bunch of caps. Then, when I was trying to explain what the argument was about to one of my friends, I couldn't finish because hearing myself explain it became apparent just how ridiculous the entire thing was. I think psychedelics just give you perspective that you're lacking in your normal day-to-day life.

Sorry for the Reddit link but lemmy.world's not letting upload images and I'm on mobile so don't want to transcribe this, but just imagine the person you're arguing with is like this:

https://i.redd.it/abynwb2aewo71.jpg

I don't really engage with anything I don't see as a thoughtful reply made in good faith. Sometimes. But I try not to.

How do I handle it? Poorly.

How should I handle it? Well, a few things:

If I haven't engaged yet, I should try to keep in mind whether it's worth my time to engage, whether I'm really qualified to represent the opposing viewpoint, etc. Often, I'm just not the right person or it's not the right time.

If I feel like I need to change this person's opinion in order to be okay, it's less about them and more about me. I probably feel like there's some part of my humanity that isn't being recognized here. The thing is: Responding to them by being hostile to their perspective is gonna make them feel exactly the same way, and neither of us are gonna get what we want.

It's much better to ask: "I'm curious why you see it that way. I see it differently, and here's why" focusing way more on what I'm subjectively bringing to table rather than what makes it an objectively better argument. Curiosity also invites them into a collaborative exercise instead of a zero-sum duel. It's crazy that we view online debates as like... if I learned something in the process, I'm the loser! What a weird way to look at it! If I phrase it in a way where we can both feel good about changing our minds just a little bit, we'll both feel way better.

It's also helpful to recognize the difference between positions and interests/motivations. Two people might both want an orange, but there's only one orange. Alice's position is "I want that orange". But their interest might be that they want to make orange juice with it. And Bob's interest might be that he wants to zest the peel to make an orange cake. They could easily both be happy here, but not realize it because they're stuck fighting on what to do instead of why they want to do that. Even if I don't get the discussion to that point, it can be helpful to assume that the other party has reasons for their position that are different from the reasons for mine, and they might both be valid.

And along those lines... just because I'm right doesn't mean the other person is wrong. Sometimes more than one thing can be true. The world is messy, the truth resists simplicity, and plenty of things -- and people -- are contradictory while still being valuable.

Finally: I should try to recognize when someone is simply acting in bad faith and cut my losses way before getting emotionally invested. Sometimes online content is literally a trap, and I don't have to keep walking towards it after already realizing it's a trap just because I'm curious what kind of trap it is. Innuendo Studios' series on "The Alt-Right Playbook" is a great guide to recognizing this behavior: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ

1. Put down the fucking phone.
2. Lit a joint.
3. ???
4. Profit

"bonus points for not answering 'go outside drink water read a book' etc etc'

Erm, well, the very first thing I suggest is going outside for a bit. A walk can do wonders.

But this is one part of a general strategy, really - when you are upset by something online, make a little space between yourself and the conversation, reflect on why it upsets you, and decide if it's worth continuing to engage.

If it is, try to be as even-handed in your responses as possible. I find deliberately trying to tone down my own rhetoric makes me feel better - if I'm using super emotional language, all I'm doing is ratcheting up my own pissed-off-o-meter. I have a better experience trying to discuss something in good faith with a fellow human, even if they're wrong or just being an asshole for the sake of it. Try to make a space for the other human to have a real discussion. Either it will become a good conversation, and might expose you or the other person to viewpoints you haven't considered, or it will become clear that it's not worth your time to continue.

If it's not worth your time (either upon initial reflection or upon fresh evidence), just stop. Nothing good will come of continuing to go at it. Look at or do stuff that carries value for yourself instead.

With time, you end up realizing that you gain nothing from these interactions, so it’s best to ignore them, and focus on those that make your life better.

No matter if it’s the internet or real life, life’s too short to waste it on meaningless discussion with stupid people, they won’t change and you’ll only waste time.

Use your time and energy in meaningful things, and try to be a happier person.

By not getting upset about something online. Here's a person, you have not seen, behind a computer screen, most likely on another continent which you have no idea where. Who gives a fuck what they think or say, let them go.

I got old

I struggle with this too sometimes, from a couple angles. Primarily, I’m worried about how people perceive me. I’ve been practicing not giving a shit what other people think of me for about a decade now, and I’m pretty good, but it doesn’t always work. I have to remind myself that it just doesn’t matter if a stranger disagrees with me, or thinks I’m a fuckwad/idiot/etc, just like my opinion of them doesn’t change their life. We don’t know each other. Their negative opinion of me has no real impact on my life, and holding onto that helps me move past caring about their opinion.

Secondarily, I stress about misinformation/toxic ideas being spread. I pipe up in a lot of discussions about feminism and the patriarchy because I want to clarify misconceptions that a lot of people hold about these issues. But, as far as I know, I’ve never changed someone’s mind, and the effort just brings me down. I have to remind myself it’s not my responsibility to teach someone why they might be wrong. The odds that I would actually succeed are very low, unless the person is genuine and asking questions in good faith.

Log off and touch grass.

Not even trying to be a dick, but I’ll go water my gardens lol.

Very often I will be baited into arguing with a stranger on Lemmy here. Whenever someone gets under my skin I do my best to ignore them and step away from the PC and phone for a few hours and go smoke some pot. I have wasted enough time in my life arguing with strangers over differences in opinion. Too many trolls, mentally unwell people, and political extremist, all of which love to argue and are not interested in a meaningful exchange of ideas. At best they want to be 'right' and argue till their blue in the face, at worst they just want to waste my time and fuck with me.

Now I just let them say their piece and be done with it, to get along with my day in a positive way. And starves them of the interaction they want.

I tend to think that dogmatic opinions are not changeable via online discourse. You cannot rationalize someone out of these positions—that kind of change has to take place in person with some semblance of real human care and connection involved. So, I try not to post with the intent of changing the mind of someone already committed to a dogmatic opinion. That said, I think it can still be fruitful to reply to these people occasionally in situations where I think other people reading the thread might benefit from the information. My dad has one particular troll on his Facebook friends list that he occasionally replies to just to give the troll’s wider network an alternative view to consider if they feel like it.

Just move on and forget about it

The best option is to not engage. What are you trying to get out of the argument with the other person? Are they arguing in good faith? Odds are, they are either a troll trying to get under your skin, or will never change their mind because they are too entrenched on their side. By engaging, you are wasting your time and likely ruining your day for no reason.

The basic skill of mindful meditation is to be aware of thoughts as they arise and in doing so avoid the trap of being identified with them and captured by them. Without needing to obtain a saffron robe and head up a mountain for a few years, you can just accept that your mid is going to start its "This fool needs to be schooled!" routine and (almost) instantly understand that you don't need to school the fool despite the strong inclination to do so.
Not only doe this free you from the rarely productive effort of schooling fools, but helps get you past the feelings so that you can better judge when you want to spend the effort to school a fool, then do so without the emotional baggage which will undermine your lesson.

Like all such things, the more you practice, the easier it gets. Given the overwhelming number of active fools and their endless reinforcements, you're going to get plenty of practice.

As for trite advice concerning molesting vegetation, exposure to the elements, pursuing nominally rewarding activities, etc. the underlying wisdom of keeping a healthy grasp on the big picture such that judgements of how to spend the limited resource which is our attention can also be reinforced by your practice.

With that deep insight and wisdom out of the way, keep schooling the fools*. We are those fools and we need schooling from time time. Do it with kindness and as much skill as you have for the good of us all.

*[Some of those fools are, of course, trolls. Even then, your audience is larger than the troll.]

I think it's important to remember that when you are interacting online, especially with an unknown person, there is no relational component. You are effectively just words or text to them, there isn't a "person" behind what they are reading. It's very easy to be obstinate or argumentative with just words because you can't see the reaction or impact on the other person. So it's nearly impossible to change someone's mind in that format unless they are really being genuine and looking to have an exchange of ideas.

I've found the best way for myself to handle these types of situations is to realize nothing I say is going to impact them or change their mind. If I'm really wound up I might type a response out to get the frustration and energy out and then delete it. I usually feel better after that and can move on with my day but engaging further is just going to lead to further frustration because you can't actually reach the person.

Beware my answer is extremely practical and "Vulcan" so to speak. With that said...

My rule for this and other things is "will I remember/care about this in a couple of days?" If the answer is no -and for most, if not all online interactions, the answer is absolutely not- then why let it occupy your mind now if it's gonna leave it soon anyways. That's why I don't bother interacting with any response that is even mildly adversarial... why bother? Both you and the other person will have forgotten about it the day after tomorrow.

Like, try to remember an specific adversarial online interaction you had from like a month ago... it's probably hard to come up with a particular one. It's just a matter of looking at it from that future perspective in the present.

But maybe, even when trying to adopt that position, you are still overwhelmed with the feeling that you need to prove that you are right or the other person is wrong. In that case, remember two maxims for internet discussion:
1 - Everyone has already chosen their position, and is not changing it.
2 - There is no price for being right.
So, from a practical perspective, you will just be wasting your time trying to prove anything, since it won't change anyone's mind and you will not gain anything from it.

For me looking at it from these perspectives helps me to be "oh well, whatever"

Situational.

First, if it's directed at me, I do not engage. Like, at all. If someone is trying to get my attention with shitty behavior, they're not getting it. If it's the guy on my discord meme channel who posts incel memes, I really have do have to remind myself not to engage. That one is harder, because I feel like they're taking away from the quality of the space, I don't want them in my orbit AT ALL, but they are part of the greater community, and this channel sort of quarantines their brain vomit. So again, I never engage with them, but I deliberately engage with other posters and community members who are productive and positive. In the short term, it's not rewarding, but in the long term I do feel much better about myself. And finally, sometimes I really do need to step away--maybe it's into another game, another community, etc. Sometimes I do need to take a break, seek other forms of entertainment and reinforcement. The main thing is not to continuously expose yourself to things that are aversive to you and just stress and stress. You have to break it somehow.

Step away from it and avoid engaging. Let it fade into memory. Distract yourself with something you enjoy or find fun/entertaining. Don't give them your attention or energy, and don't go looking for more stuff that will make you mad. It's hard but it does work if you stick with it and don't let yourself get stuck thinking about it over and over. If absolutely necessary, vent about it to a friend, get the salt out of your system without inviting it into your life directly. Only engage with something that you think deserves your time and energy. Just because it's a topic you give a shit about, that doesn't mean that someone being a dickhead on the internet deserves any emotional investment or emotional labour from you. Not letting yourself engage with something that upsets you can feel frustrating at first, but after a while it will begin to feel very freeing. You will start to feel less obligated to devote too much mental real-estate to things that upset you and shitty people who don't deserve the time of day from you. You will then feel less of that immediate urge to dive in and get involved in an argument, which will likely only upset you. Instead it gets easier to move on and let it fade to white noise in the backdrop of your thoughts, until it's gone completely.

That was my experience at least when I started having this issue and decided to just stop getting into it with stupid online strangers.

When I start being upset, I stop being upset and be awesome instead 😅

Look, we're human, things upset us - what matters is how you handle being upset, not the fact that you do get upset.

Personally, I have a few rules to help me

• don't check notifications or social media right before bed.
• if a reply or statement upsets me, I will put away my phone for as long as it takes me to process my feelings and see the comment in a more neutral light.

I don't think it's stupid to have a reaction to stuff that happens online, but the trick is to not get baited into investing even more into whatever it is if there is no likely resolution. It's kind of vibes based, but sometimes you get someone who you can just tell is a bit unhinged and will never stop posting at you no matter how much they are embarrassing themselves. So I distance myself from whatever it is. Maybe just turn of notifications, other times I need to unbookmark the site to stay away or sometimes I just delete my account and move on entirely.

I'll also often preemptively disable notifications if I think a take is going to attract weirdos.

bonus points for not answering ‘go outside drink water read a book’ etc etc

I mean I hate to say it but these are still honest, good answers even if you've heard them before. Sometimes you just have to touch some grass.

Dumbasses posting stupid shit don't read sourced or reasoned comments. They just fling more poo. Walk away.

Don't feed the trolls.

Walk away and take a breath.

Also, will this really matter to me:

• Tomorrow?
• In a week?
• In a month?
• In a year?

That helps to put challenging situations into perspective.

Try to notice why I find it so upsetting, and see if I can unpack and defuse it.

The first step for me was realizing that this stuff made me angry and unhappy. Rather than viewing this as something I need to exercise my anger on I view it as something I need to avoid so I don't get angry. Using the block feature really helped a lot.

Ask yourself this. Will this matter to me a week from now? If not then walk away and move on.

I start by not getting bothered by stupid shit said by people I don’t know and don’t care about. Only people that I know and respect have the capacity to hurt me in any way.

As soon as someone starts engaging with me in a rude way online, I respond with one single "hey let's chill out" or "we can disagree peacefully" kind of comment. That gives them a chance to stop being confrontational.
If they burn that chance I either disengage or troll you into the abyss (depends by how much free time I have in that moment) because I know that arguing with angry people is useless.

My response comes down to what I feel the other person's intent is. If they're a troll, I don't engage to begin with - downvote and move on. If we entered into a conversation but I find that they're arguing in bad faith (they want to argue, not reach an understanding), then I say something like "I'm not going to argue with you about it, but I appreciate your perspective" (even if I don't). If it seems like it could be a useful disagreement, though, I'll consciously remind myself that there's a person behind the text, and I'll continue the conversation until it reaches an end. It may be uncomfortable, but remembering that we're all just humans being human helps me tone myself down.

either ignore it or use factual calm statements to lure out personal attacks and then report them. I got a bunch of people banned from reddit this way before I was banned for "threatening violence" in a comment where I didn't threaten anyone at all, or mention any violent acts. Things are much calmer and more "adulty" here. Besides any political discussion of course.

Be thankful that this is the biggest problem I'm facing!

If an argument is upsetting or frustrating me then I will stop replying. I like to argue for fun and as soon as it's not fun I try to disengage because there is already enough angry people on the internet and I don't want to be another one.

If it's an unfair ban, I'll post one comment saying it's unfair and possibly insulting the mods. Only one comment otherwise it turns into a fight and I get banned to.

The reason why I don't really get upset by internet arguments is because I remind myself that we don't know each other and never will. We both have completely different world views and perspective and that's fine. I've also been on the internet a long time and learned the hard way that arguments on the internet are a pointless waste of time if your goal is to get the other person to change their mind.

You also never know how serious another person is. I once strung a youtube comment section argument out for 8 months. My position was that space was not real and this guy was an idiot for believing the footage was real. Of course I believe space is real its just funny to say its not and watch people lose their minds.