this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2023
630 points (97.3% liked)

Today I Learned

17282 readers
272 users here now

What did you learn today? Share it with us!

We learn something new every day. This is a community dedicated to informing each other and helping to spread knowledge.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must begin with TIL. Linking to a source of info is optional, but highly recommended as it helps to spark discussion.

** Posts must be about an actual fact that you have learned, but it doesn't matter if you learned it today. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.**



Rule 2- Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding non-TIL posts.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-TIL posts using the [META] tag on your post title.



Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.

If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.

For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.

Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.



Partnered Communities

You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.

Community Moderation

For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

For critics of widening projects, the prime example of induced demand is the Katy Freeway in Houston, one of the widest highways in the world with 26 lanes.

Immediately after Katy’s last expansion, in 2008, the project was hailed as a success. But within five years, peak hour travel times on the freeway were longer than before the expansion.

Matt Turner, an economics professor at Brown University and co-author of the 2009 study on congestion, said adding lanes is a fine solution if the goal is to get more cars on the road. But most highway expansion projects, including those in progress in Texas, cite reducing traffic as a primary goal.

“If you keep adding lanes because you want to reduce traffic congestion, you have to be really determined not to learn from history,” Dr. Turner said.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] lemmyseizethemeans@lemmygrad.ml 79 points 1 year ago (9 children)

But think of the alternative. In Japan the trains arrive every 10 minutes are publicity subsidized so cost is minimal and because of this there exists an entire generation of train nerds that just want to go out and photograph trains. Are you gonna let the nerds win?

[–] Wolf_359@lemmy.world 50 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Can't let a bunch of train virgins take away my Ford F-750.

[–] evatronic@lemm.ee 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

12 yards long, 2 lanes wide,

65 tons of American Pride!

Canyonero! Canyonero!

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[–] inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 74 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Yup. Been plenty of studies to show that increasing lanes only alleviates traffic in the short term and long term only makes it worse. Better to spend money on trains and busses that actually work and get people where they need to go with minimal hassle and a reasonable cost than to do this crap.

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago

to me it's like the military industrial complex - they don't care what evidence supports, they want their fucking money and they'll keep building roads until it's a giant parking lot from sea to fucking sea. we could have an ecosystem, but fuck you, because cars.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] TenderfootGungi@lemmy.world 53 points 1 year ago (3 children)

This is because the extra lane allows demand to change. It is not congested so people feel ok building and moving to further out suburbs. This continues until demand has increased to cause delays.

Note that Houston and Paris have about the same population. Paris is 1/3 the size. They are actually removing a lane from their loop highway and planting trees, and turning another lane into busses only. Only considering transportation, I would much rather live in Paris.

[–] kyle@lemm.ee 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you also consider the weather and politics, I would still much rather live in Paris.

[–] deadsenator@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago

Let's list the reasons why Houston is better....hrmmm...I got nothing.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

But what options do you have in Houston, compared to Paris?

You can’t just not widen roads but instead

— less sprawl - places to live closer to each other and to destinations

-- useful transit or short distance commute options

-- remove bottlenecks

These are a lot harder to do, and I don’t imagine Houston even considered it

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Default_Defect@midwest.social 51 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Simply make it a single flat wide open surface, drive where you're trying to go in a straight line.

If you die, you die.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Ryan213@lemmy.world 47 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why, oh why didn't they build 27 lanes?!?

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 20 points 1 year ago

99% of urban planners stop just one lane short of permanently solving traffic for good.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 45 points 1 year ago (2 children)

For anyone wondering what that looks like-

Absolute insanity.

[–] Noughmad@programming.dev 36 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Where are the bridges? How do you walk from one side to the other?

Oh yeah, right, of course. But how do you even drive from one side to the other?

load more comments (2 replies)

Hey this looks just like my failed Cities Skylines build!

[–] CanadianCorhen@lemmy.ca 41 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The fools, if they had made in 27 lanes they would have been fine!

[–] TheWoozy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

27 is an odd number, do I assume the center lane switches direction for rush hour. That's sure to fix it.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] InevitableCriticism@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I live in Katy. Driving through this from 4-7 pm is an absolute nightmare. Horrible traffic jams, erratic drivers and multi-car accidents daily. Mornings aren’t fun either.

[–] hoodatninja@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago

After Hurricane Katrina I lived in Houston for about six months. I still have nightmares about your highways. I don’t know how y’all do it.

[–] grte@lemmy.ca 28 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Who knew that adding complexity to a system entirely reliant on millions of autonomous drivers who only communicate with each other through lights, horns, and middle fingers would slow things down.

[–] Uncle_Bagel@midwest.social 15 points 1 year ago

Lived out there for a few years and i can tell you no one is communicating through the lights on their cars.

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] sartalon@reddthat.com 26 points 1 year ago

Houston is commonly used as an example for what NOT to do, when it comes to civil planning and development.

[–] 5redie8@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Literally play 2 minutes of cities skylines and you will discover how bad of an idea this is lmao

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] hark@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

If you've got more lanes then you've got more lanes for idiots to cross right before the exit they need to take because they weren't paying attention and they MUST take this particular exit or their life is over or something.

[–] maniajack@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] RandomStickman@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago

Just one more lane bro. I promise. It'll fix everything, I swear. Just one more lane bro.

My only time in the Houston area, and visiting friends staying in Katy TX, and I learned how quickly I hated the traffic there. This makes sense

[–] Bye@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The purpose of widening the highway isn’t to make individuals move faster or to solve congestion. It’s to move more individuals, and therefore more money.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Grappling7155@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 year ago

I N D U C E D D E M A N D

Great for sidewalks, bike paths, and trains, but terrible for cars.

[–] vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

At least it look really cool.

[–] ours@lemmy.film 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In an "urban hell" kind of way.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

It worked great at the start, but the Houston area population just kept exploding at unprecedented rates.

The Greater Houston area grew by 70% between 2000 and 2020 - largely on the West side. Of course a 30% capacity improvement couldn't keep up.

[–] BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago

If they had just built it with 52 lanes!

/s

[–] donut4ever@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

They missed it by one lane. They only needed one more. Lol

[–] Hazdaz@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Anti-car people use this to try to explain that adding more lanes doesn't help traffic congestion. Except that every highway system is different and the vast majority of them don't have anywhere near those number of lanes. Adding 1 lane to a 2 lane road would dramatically help traffic situations.

[–] Stuka@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Can confirm. My area added a third lane to the highway over the last 10 years or so. So much better than before. One grandma can't bring the entire highway to a snails pace anymore.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›