this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2023
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It had been in the works for a while, but now it has formally been adopted. From the article:

The regulation provides that by 2027 portable batteries incorporated into appliances should be removable and replaceable by the end-user, leaving sufficient time for operators to adapt the design of their products to this requirement.

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[–] nivenkos@lemmy.world 158 points 1 year ago (7 children)

The real issue nowadays is the software, although this is still a good step.

But being stuck with no software updates after 2-4 years still renders them unusable (when also locked down).

They should be forced to provide open bootloaders, firmware and kernel drivers once the devices reach end of life. Maybe even include hardware details and schematics, etc. for full repairability.

The efforts of devices like the Framework laptop and Steam Deck should be commonplace. It's insane we put some corporation's patents and trade secrets above the environment.

[–] whynotzoidberg@lemmy.world 56 points 1 year ago (6 children)

While they have other not-friendly practices, Apple does well on the software side. The iPhone 8, going on 6 years old this September, is still running the latest version of iOS.

I've been away from Android for a while now. Is it still the case that there is a lot of fragmentation and updates end prematurely? Or is there another OS / software you're thinking about?

[–] Fidelity9373@fedia.io 35 points 1 year ago

Android/Google tried to make this a bit easier through Project Treble, which is like a "core" of android that can be easily updated, then vendors build their modifications on top of it. It's pretty widely adopted now, but that doesn't stop companies from deciding they don't want to support hardware from three years ago even though it is still compatible with the latest Android core.

[–] N1cknamed@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Samsung offers 5 years of support nowadays. The other big manufacturers tend to be lacking in this regard however.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Iirc Samsung is 5 years security, 4 years os updates. Pixel line is 5 years security, 3 years os.

[–] Amir@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But Samsung releases just before a new Android version comes out, so phones launched in the same year get the same last update

[–] peepthatsnotcool@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I could apply that argument to Pixels. S23 has been available since February, and the Pixel 8 still hasn't been released. Right now, both are running Android 13, yet the Samsung is getting an extra OS update

[–] vtez44@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If you don't buy no-name brand phones, you will get at least one major update. Even chinese brands such as xiaomi will provide updates. You can also install generic LineageOS image if your phone can be unlocked some way, official or not. It works on most devices.

But many smart TVs become useless very quick. When I was using 2015 phone in 2020, TV newer than that already loaded the lightweight Google version for unsupported browsers and vast majority sites/apps became unavailable. It used browser that was already 2 years old when it was released and never released an update to it. But when there was root vulnerability, they released a fix after long time of being basically unsupported.

[–] Matte@feddit.it 5 points 1 year ago

oh man, I’d kill to know how to hack my fucking samsung tv. I don’t use it’s useless “business” smart functions, but every time i turn it on it nags me with that terrible menu. and there’s no way to turn it off because they completely fucked it up by pushing ads through that menu.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Always buy the "smarts" as a separate device (a media player or smartbox).

Having the product lifecycle and even user requirements of a fast-changing and cheap (and always getting cheaper) element selected on the basis of computing performace and software like the "smart" media player, to those of a much slower changing and vastly more expensive element selected on the basis of size and visual criteria (the actual display) hard-linked isn't really a wise purchasing decision - it means that in a few years you're pretty much guaranteed to end up with either a device that can't support the latest software and hence has sub-standard functionality or paying a "full TV" price because you need to upgrade just that subset of functionality, something which if bought separatelly you could otherwise upgrade for less than 100 bucks.

[–] nothendev@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The thing with older iPhones, running new iOSes, is that they're intentionally slowed down (by the software) or as I'd like to call it, underclocked. That also could render them useless, even with new iOS, and even if there were removable batteries.

[–] jiml78@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The intentional slowdown was directly related to battery life. They got sued over it. But if you put in a new battery, performance returns to previous levels.

Apple even tells you in your battery info settings page whether you are running with "Peak Performance Capability".

[–] MeanEYE@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Drop a look at FairPhone, they provide 7 years software support for their devices and make sure all the materials are fairly sourced. No Apple-like child labor and suicide workers.

[–] tallwookie@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

only 2 models and the "cheap" one is more than I paid for the last two phones I had, combined. what percentage of the market do they have?

[–] MeanEYE@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I am not sure about the percentage of the market. It's a standard Android without the bloat so compatibility is there. Price is not that expensive when compared to industry leaders but even if you do consider it expensive that's the reality of the matter when you want to buy a device which is made with materials whose production didn't exploit child labor or someone's misery.

Company has a fairly clear goal and is focused towards that. They want to reduce waste by allowing device to be disassembled and repaired at home, while at the same time providing spare parts years after device production has ended. And along the way make sure materials and labor are all fair trade and fair employment. Take a look at their "our mission" and "our impact" pages. They list every supplier for each of the parts and materials. They even offer recycling your old devices for you.

[–] BrightCandle@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There are open source operating systems that are Android based which will update to the latest versions and fix bugs and suchwell beyond the manufacturer's support, lineageOS for example.

[–] CoderKat@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

A tricky part is that some apps detect an unlocked bootloader and brick themselves, which effectively makes it impossible to use those apps on such devices. And while I don't think rooting is a strict requirement for installing LineageOS based off a quick search, rooting also has this problem (and at least last time I installed a custom OS many years ago, I recall either having to root or thinking I had to root).

[–] RunAwayFrog@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Your information is a few years outdated. lineageOS neither comes rooted, nor does it offer a native way to root anymore. Magisk became a thing with a whole community around it. It's an unlocked bootloader hider, root manager (and hider), and a system patcher, all wrapped up in one tool.

With Magisk, you give root access to the apps that need it, hide root ability from apps that require non-root devices (those apps do that by pretending to need root). Also, the Magisk app can rename itself, which is important as some apps check against the name itself.

The future challenge is with Google trying to force hardware identification (Apple style). I have not been following developments regarding that though, since as others mentioned, my X years old phone is still serving me perfectly, and I have no intention to upgrade any time soon.

[–] AnagrammadiCodeina@feddit.it 3 points 1 year ago

There are ways to hide the root part to apps. Im so used to a rooted phone that i would not do otherwise. Also im using a phone from 2016 that i bought used and im on android 13

[–] Jesus_666@feddit.de 5 points 1 year ago

Assuming someone makes a ROM for your device. This is often the case if you go with one of the most popular models but less popular devices might simply see no development effort – if the developers can even get their hands on the drivers and other necessary parts to build Android for that device.

It'd be great if manufacturers had to release all of the stuff necessary to run AOSP on their devices but I doubt it's going to happen.

[–] verysoft@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

One step at a time, easy to get people behind something like batteries, as it's a common point of failure on phones. Then we go after their shitty software practices.

[–] amenotef@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Also sucks because, since they don't update the software. Then they develop always on the recent or latest hardware (which requires less optimizations) and we end up always stuck in terms of performance and battery life.

[–] madis@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They should be forced to provide open bootloaders, firmware and kernel drivers once the devices reach end of life.

How would you propose it?

You wouldn't be able to say "smartphones" as not all run Android obviously. Limiting legislation to Android specifically would make no sense either, OEMs may just do hard forks then (ahem, HarmonyOS).

[–] nivenkos@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] madis@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I would like it, but I feel that it would be harder to convince legislators that it is an actually practical use case.

Because besides Android and iOS, there is also for example Tizen and KaiOS. Is there a market for custom software for those devices? And if not, why require it?

[–] N1cknamed@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Both Samsung and Apple offer 5+ years of software support nowadays. It seems unreasonable to expect much more IMO. Devices don't stop working after no longer receiving updates, and there is also the option of jailbreaking/installing custom ROMs for those who really care.