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Didn't we try the whole Dems helping Republicans thing before? And didn't that get us into this whole-ass mess to begin with, Hillary?
I'm sure Biden won't ignore WI, MI, PA this time around like Hillary did.
In fairness I blame Stein for that shit. Her voters would have flipped every single one of those states had Putin not been encouraging her to spoil in favor of the wannabe authoritarian.
I blame Hillary. Stein ran her campaign, and Hillary didn't do enough to get enough votes.
Not to replay previous elections but seriously, if Hillary had visited just a few of the states she completely wrote off maybe she'd have gotten a couple vote there. I'm pretty left of center so I'll vote my interests anyway but not even being worth a visit is a bit of a slap in the face to a whole lot of people who at least want to feel heard.
I won’t say you’re wrong but how ridiculous is it that people need someone to come to their state to gain their vote?
Get the fuck over yourself.
Actually, I just decided if Joe doesn’t knock on my door himself he can forget about it.
It makes sense to me that people feel that way. "Hillary didn't even come to Michigan, why would she care about us?"
No one is expecting Biden to knock on their door, but making the effort to show that their state counts does get people more likely to vote for him.
It makes sense to not vote to someone for lack of a gesture? I don’t think so.
And it is just a gesture because hearing the candidate speak in person doesn’t tell me anything more about them than what I can learn online.
Lack of a gesture? No. Lack of caring? Yes.
I'm not sure how you got me coming up with the hypothetical statement of “Hillary didn’t even come to Michigan, why would she care about us?” and think that it was about gestures when I literally said it was about a perception of lack of caring about them.
Flint was going through a water crisis (and still is). Hillary never went to Michigan. That would get some people in Flint to think she doesn't care about them. Why wouldn't it?
Yes, to them, I can see how some might think that.
I also think those people are ridiculous. I wouldn’t have even known if Clinton came to my state if it weren’t for threads like this.
Having lived in a state that she didn't visit, I've heard it mentioned more than once.
Is it logical and rational? Not necessarily, but people do want to feel heard and writing off huge swaths of the country because you didn't need those states to win, simply targeting specific, winnable states to get the required electors). Is incredibly poor form and turns out was probably a mistake.
It exposed them for what they were and still are, out-of-touch, rich, milquetoast know-nothings looking down their noses at huge chunks of the population at best. At worst thinking because they're born of a certain class they're entitled to rule.
That you don't know what Presidential candidates visit your state during an election is on you, pay more attention.
What difference would it make to me? What more would I learn?
Just as an example, imagine me, going my whole adult life thinking women deserve the right to determine what happens with their own bodies. What could, say, Trump possibly say in person to make me change my position on that? Would it be some amazing argument that I had never heard on TV or over the internet? How could that possibly move me on positions I hold, and therefore change my vote?
Do you see how fucking crazy that sounds?
I hated her and sat out the vote because I didn't think it was possible for the other to win. Dems are to blame for running someone so unlikeable. They're doing it again, only to a lesser degree.
I voted for her, and I voted for Biden and will vote for him again, but 2016 was like a slow motion train wreck as viewed from the dining car. This Biden campaign feels the same.
Nah, if Nader wasn't here we wouldn't have had Iraq, and if Stein wasn't we wouldn't have had Dobbs.
The green party are fascist collaborators and deserve no deflection from their responsibility in holding america back in the name of their white left bullshit allowing the right to drag this country further and further off track in the name of "teaching those establishment dems a lesson."
We could have had better education standards, made headway on climate change, and avoided the 6-3 court taking away women's reproductive rights, but nah, lets blame the dems who'd have stopped that shit for the Green Party being knowing spoilers upto and including taking RNC money to keep doing it.
When we achieve the multipartisan pluralistic democracy this country needs the current greens will be wiped out and replaced, because they're not a real party with real political goals, they're a russian and RNC backed professional spoiler club who exist only to let the white left pretend the continued degradation of this country is the fault of the people out to halt or reverse it because,
"well you didn't make me want to vote for you as hard as this obvious straw-candidate who's literally taking money from the folks out to destroy everything I claim to value more than rubbing it in your face that it's your fault I'm doing nothing to help."
You folks still trying to blame hillary for Stein stabbing everyone in the back are the epitome of the "look what you made me do!" domestic abuser.
Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim and Offender,
That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
We're going to see queer folks be hunted for sport by the end of next year because people like you can't just admit that shit is better when the Republicans are not let into at least one branch of government than when they aren't.
We literally have observable proof that the biggest improvements to life in this country come when the dems are given the margin to just do shit without having to spending months prying it from the right, but nah, let's teach them another lesson by letting the Rs back into power so they can reverse Obergefell with a 9-0 majority this time instead!
That will teach those old white folks that won't be personally impacted at all and not just prove that the white left is not and has never been any sort of ally to the queer community!
Least unhinged liberal
Nader and Stein are less of a factor than you think.
In 2000, the butterfly ballot and Pat Buchanen caused more problems in Florida than Nader did, but the killer part was NONE of the Florida nonsense would have mattered if Gore had just managed to win his own home state of Tennessee. That would have put him over the top and Florida would have been a non issue.
Same thing with Stein in 2016. Clinton was her own worst enemy talking about putting coal mines out of business which cost her Pennsylvania and then failing to campaign entirely in Michigan and Wisconsin.
Why don’t you advocate as vociferously for ranked choice voting and proportional representation instead of political districts so we can get out of dichotomy?
Your assumption that if there were no 3rd party candidates we would have voted for your neoliberal POS is incorrect. The 15% of Dems that switched to Republican in 2000 had more impact on Bush winning than the 3% that voted for Nader. Gore couldn't even win his home state, had he done that he could have lost Florida and still won the election.
Clinton did absolutely nothing to earn votes in 2016 and didn't even try, her entitled hubris demanded any vote not going to the GOP was hers.
Yes, Clinton supporters blame everyone but Clinton for the loss she earned.
Well, Debbie Schultz has some blame too, Hillary shouldn't have even have won the primary.
No. Can they count?
Haley isn't going to win but voting for her in the primaries will help fracture the republican party further.
If she wins the primaries, there's no way Trump won't run as an independent.
And that will split GOP votes.
Not unless she buys him off with promises of pardons and funding for his lawsuits. They could very well strike a deal where she names him as her VP and promises him oversight of the Department of Justice.
Do you think she likes him enough to do that?
You don’t have to like someone to strike a deal to gain the presidency.
Fair, but I don't think it would be wise to place trump in a position where your death would make him president.
Excellent point, perhaps put him on charge of the justice department then…
As though that would be a discernible change from right now.
Or it won't. It will look like they are more popular and bolster the outlook for the party.
You're crazy if you don't think this splits the vote.
Republicans fall in line.
Not with trump they don't.
Yeah but Haley doesn't validate rural white voters wanting to say the N word without social consequences the way Trump does.
Trump promises to make the grandkids start coming home for christmas again, Haley promises to return to the Republicans paying the nominal lipservice to that mentality being a bad thing that was driving trump's supporters nuts with the party before the brass bullshitter came along.
The net effect will more likely be trump still winning and then either Haley's supporters feeling alienated from how much Trump goes feral against her in the process, or Trump is blocked from running and he still loses via a write in third party run from the cult of trump
She didn't list slavery as a reason for the Civil War. She'd absolutely validate the racists if she got the nomination.