572
Electric cars: The equivalent of switching from binge drinking whiskey to binge drinking wine.
(lemmy.ml)
this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2023
572 points (78.6% liked)
Fuck Cars
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This is why people hate liberals, and why liberals often migrate over to conservatism: no matter how right you are, there's always someone happy to crap on you for not being right enough.
Don't shit on EVs for merely being one of many solutions that all need to be engaged with. It's not like without EVs, so many people would be rushing to areas of greater density and riding public transit, so your message is not helpful in achieving what you want, and actively angers your allies.
Ah yes conservatism, the famous side of rational thinking and anti-bias thoughts, such as avoiding the perfect solution bias
Your comment having so many upvotes is disgusting
The thing is you're just not right. EVs serve to save the car, not the world.
Correct! Which is why you should fight cars in general, cause then that happens
Yes, all those actually leftist people who are driven to become fascist 🤡
You’re not an ally.
Don't take it so personally. sure EVs have a role to play but if we're to be serious about tackling climate change and environmental sustainability it's going to require massive infrastructure redevelopment projects, not asking everyone to please swap to rechargeable batteries. It's not about being "right enough" it's about recognizing a non-solution and also on a policy level a blatant scam. All these EV subsides the liberal Biden administration is throwing out are an obvious hand out to the failing American auto industry to try to keep them competitive and desperate ploy to their quickly dwindling supporters for them to look like they're doing anything worthwhile on climate change at all.
Having every American buy a new electric car is just going to make a few auto executives rich as hell and not even reduce overall global emissions because those cheaper ICE cars that can't be sold in America are just going to go to other parts of the world that don't have EV infrastructure but have plenty of already existing gas stations. And there's all the emissions of actually building the damn things. No, they need to put their money where their mouth is and build some fucking trains.
I'm not taking it personally: hyper-progressive policies that require achievements in infrastructure change orders of magnitude more costly and complicated than any other event in human history described as "just something folks have to do" as if it's that easy, as if they're not just happening because of half a dozen car company CEOs... they just make me queasy that you're an ally of mine in our desire to fight global warming.
Ah, the „hyper-progressive“ policy of… building trains… 🤡
You’re not an ally.
Lmao you are not an ally in fighting global warming if you don’t support major changes in infrastructure. You are taking this way too personally, you’re in a fuck_cars community crying about how we shouldn’t be mean about cars.
You can agree that EV’s are a non-solution while still accepting that you live in a place that’s so fucked up that it doesn’t provide you with an alternative.
No, I'm saying that removed about EVs does what, exactly? The infrastructure change you're glib about happens how? You haven't even thought of that. You have a goal, but no map from here to there. You're still stuck at the fuck cars stage it seems.
Try to actually solve the problem instead of removed about incremental solutions that don't do enough for your taste.
do you not realize that the existing car infrastructure requires constant maintenance
Infrastructure change at the scale you're speaking about is not unheard of. The Netherlands did it twice. First because Europe got the shit bombed out of it and building car centric cities was trendy, then second because they realized what a shit idea that was and reversed it.
Sure, the Netherlands was never sparse in the first place, but nobody's asking for trains to farmer John's house in Nebraska. If the Netherlands can rework their cities to at least chillax on cars, so can American cities.
I know using the Netherlands as an example is trite, but urban planners literally know the solutions.
It has little to do with that, actually. There are very few cities that got heavily hit. What was removed and remodelled in the 60s and 70s was way more than the war had damaged and it happened after the major repairs were already done. Even cities and countries the war never really touched got extensive remodelling.
It was a completely deliberate decision to remodel those cities, driven by modernist ideas.
We do have a map to our goal, it's called Marxism-Leninism.
Do you realize what comm you're in?
If pointing out that EVs aren't a real solution is enough to alienate those "allies" they weren't really allies at all. It's also less about individual choice to move to areas with better transit, and more about pressuring the government to install better transit everywhere instead of just funneling endless money to car manufacturers.
So you're saying we should print out this post and send it to the government
EVs aren't a solution to anything except as a way to trick people into thinking purchasing a car is saving the environment or helping fix society.
If liberals are so shallow that they adopt racism because someone was mean to them online, then I'm glad they're being more honest. The message is that cars, all cars, are something worth fighting against. Electric cars are not a step in the right direction, they're not even a bandaid. They're just something liberals can purchase to make them feel like they're helping something. They're toys.
Honestly I would rather if most liberals outright come out as conservative, because it sounds like they're on the line already. It would be more honest of them.
Adopting EVs is an important step imo. The primary achievement of going EV is reducing oil/gas use. Moving away from cars as a society is a separate goal that can happen alongside this. We can never make gas green, at best net zero. EVs on the other hand can be better, with electricity from renewable sources, to batteries made with better materials. Both things which are happening and actively being researched.
So we can make EVs much better environmentally, and reduce gas demand significantly alongside reducing car use. Because we won't just stop needing gas magically, so replacing that is important for any transition away from it in the grand scheme.
Yeah I just don't see it. If we want to reduce oil/gas use then the goal would be eliminating private car use altogether and providing alternatives. EVs are still a huge machine designed to transport a single person. They're still a waste, not to mention how much the global south is getting exploited for their lithium.
Cars just aren't going to save anything. Here, I'll compromise. Electric bicycles.
For city use I agree with you but if you live in a small town you need a car. You are too far from almost everything you need. And you don't have public transport.
Yeah I believe even that should change. Everything should change to incorporate fewer or no cars, including small towns.
If you live in a little town in the middle of nowhere you won't have public transport. It's too expensive. Private transport it's the only way to go anywhere from there. It's a shame but...
Yeah I know that. It's a shame which is why we have to change it. We're out here building a better future.
You are.... not as thoughtful about issues you care about as you think you are.
Yeah, I'm an angry ball of rage because I live in a white supremacist hellscape where everyone is too smug or too tired to care. I don't have any thoughts remaining other than the word fuck. The pretense of being thoughtful is a facade. My true self wants to roll in mud and scream obscenities at anyone I think looks too wealthy.
I think both sides are lacking nuance here. If you shit on people getting electric vehicles or just thinking of getting one because that's not far enough: fuck you. But also, for people that just switched or are thinking of getting one but then see something like this and slam into reverse and say "I'm gonna support ICE cars till the day I die to spite those overly hostile woke liberals": fuck you too.
People should be able to take the information in a more nuanced way, and should stop swinging from extreme to extreme which has led to the current fucked state of politics
This is a lot like this Bors comic https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/8/8/1786532/-Cartoon-You-made-me-become-a-Nazi
Do honest people really migrate to "climate change is fake and queer people are a threat" because someone was mean to them online? Probably not often.
Plenty of people said if Bernie wasn't the nominee, they'd vote Trump. Puzzle that one.
Do you even know what community you’re commenting in
Fuck cars?
I hate ignorant conservatives, but you mostly can't do much about them because they listen to no one. But progressive ignorance is something I feel compelled to correct: progressives pretend to care about things other than their own assholes.
Meaningless meme. Because people see problems with your simplistic stance doesn't make them Trump. There should be a plan to get there from here, and right now, you guys are removed about EVs, which are part of the plan for getting there from here.
Oh no, some liberals were being mean to me on the internet. Guess I'll just vote against my own interests to spite them...
This is how a lot of people vote. Maybe they aren't converted right then and there, but it builds up over time. Humans aren't rational man
I don't doubt that that's the case, but I'm just pointing out (humorously) the absurdity of someone who is purportedly a principled individual who cares about things like climate change, civil/human rights, equality, bodily autonomy and most importantly democracy changing to the side that is openly against all of those things because people can be harsh and nasty on the internet sometimes.
Like, if someone really was so flimsy with their morals that they could bend so easily, did they ever really care in the first place? Or were they just looking for an excuse to blame the other side for their fecklessness?
What makes you think that your vitriol is in my interests?
Genuinely have no idea what you mean by that comment.
You seem confused why people don't want to agree with you politically when you're being a dick to them.
It must be some massive coincidence
Who am I being mean to?
I think you're reading too much into this.
Personally I think the issue is that you guys have only two parties.
Keep churning that pipeline to fascism.
I shit on liberals mostly because of their notions on 'altruistic capitalism'. As soon as they purchase an EV, they think they're out there saving the world and most don't think critically past that.
I really have to agree that it's posts like this that made me give up on left wing politics, in certainly not right wing but I see no hope for the left until fundermental problems are fixed which I don't believe politics or media is capable of addressing.
Further I am absolutely convinced a large portion of the loudest voices on climate change are so obsessed because they desperately want it to be the big doom that fucks up all the impressive things other people are achieving.
If you’ve given up „left wing“ politics because of a few things people have said on the internet, I have news for you: You never were left wing to begin with. Also, you’re an idiot.
"Man the right might be Nazis but the left don't like cars? Both sides!"
Yes that's exactly what I said and exactly everything that went into my thinking, congratulations you're exactly the sort of binary thinking ideolog that makes any sort of political progress impossible on the left.
Both sides!!!
Again you're just yelling slogans that have nothing to do with what I said because you're absolutely incapable of having a reasonable conversation on anything of substance. This is a perfect example of what we're talking about.
Every fucking time. Cryptofash instance.