The admin of sh.itjust.works has been approached but as of yet has failed to reply to concerned Lemmy users. I’m glad Beehaw admins look out for us by cutting off instances that host communities like this.
this post was submitted on 23 Jun 2023
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Relaxed section for discussion and debate that doesn't fit anywhere else. Whether it's advice, how your week is going, a link that's at the back of your mind, or something like that, it can likely go here.
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Oh to have the privilege to not care about politics. I wish I was able to live like that. It must be really nice.
Of course I'm worried about politics! I'm worried about the return of fascism across the west. I'm worried about deteriorating attitudes towards LGBT people. I'm worried about active attempts to eugenics neurodivergent people. I'm worried about the massive amount of influence megacorps have on people. The world is full of things to worry about. It makes people feel helpless.
I can ramble for ages about how I do what I can. Maybe I can do more. Maybe I'm a bad person for not doing enough? Maybe I'm a coward for wanting to hide from it, I don't know. Wanting to have a space to step away from worrying about these things is a copying mechanism I use, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
The world is in a horrific state right now. I am trying to escape from it too, and that's why I am glad we've defederated from communities where there are racist bigoted trolls. I appreciate the admins of Beehaw not allowing the spillover. If you don't care about that there are other instances like Lemmy.world that aren't defederated/don't have the same community policies as Beehaw.
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This had made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."
To clarify, I agree that Beehaw should defederate with instances full of racist bigoted trolls.
However, it's hard to argue that sh.itjust.works works is one of those instances from just this. This is one guy who likely slipped under the radar. I'm just saying that we should just wait a bit to see how the situation unfolds before grabbing pitchforks.
I'm just frustrated that not immediately jumping to an extreme response means I'm somehow complicit. And also somewhat frustrated that trying to distance myself from politics apparently means I'm acting privileged.
I'm just tired of being angry all the time, at this point...
It may seem like "jumping to an extreme response" but once you've had enough experience in online forums you can see the storm clouds forming from a mile away, and you know you're just better off with an immediate ban to nip it in the bud before it inevitably turns into a huge problem. People without experience see mods doing this and think they're too heavy-handed, but it's just basic internet etiquette to keep things friendly and clean.
I personally saw a few red flags, gave the admin the benefit of the doubt, but when the issue was raised enough to him, and he failed to ban the offenders, I knew exactly where it was heading and just packed up and left. The nicer places will move too eventually once they see enough of it.
This was posted before TheDude's response, so it wasn't clear whether this was something that had just slipped through the cracks or not.
However, I agree his response is concerning... Perhaps it's more due to inexperience than "malice", but it's still problematic...
It's concerning that he's not just acting on his own like a dictator and instead let the members of the instance decide?
ultimately it's his website ultimately and his users are free to decide. but if they decide to keep the community they can't really blame anyone but themselves for any subsequent defederations. particularly in a federated system, there are consequences to a laissez-faire approach--that approach has been tried time and time again with the same end result (a community of extremely unpleasant people who everyone else quarantines) and at this point many people are just not interested in federating with a community that might go down that route. that's basically what people are getting at here, imo.
Beehaw already defederated from sh.itjust.works and lemmy.world due to bots/trolls/open signups (all related). This topic was simply an affirmation the admins did the correct thing now these same instances have extremist communities popping up. These moderation issues are part of the reason we defederated.
I believe it's been deleted now, either that or my instance just blocked it
It's not a bad thing at all.
Since when are politics supposed to be shoved down my throat at every corner and has to consume my entire (online) life?
No matter where I go, star trek thread, meme thread, entertainment thread etc. People are more concerned about this stuff than anything else. And TBH, I'm kinda tired of it too.
That's exactly what happens nowadays on the internet. Radicals and extremists everywhere, who wants everybody canceled to no end just because XYZ.
So he has a valid point.
This is a beehaw thread on the beehaw instance discussing a meta topic. We're a community with a specific set of standards unlike other instances. It's irrelevant to you, so I'm not sure why you're interacting with it. No one is shoving anything down your throat; you're choosing to come in here and stomp your feet around for no reason. If you want to ever be taken seriously I suggest you stop saying "shoving X down my throat" because at this point it's a meme.
I remember the before times, when nobody mentioned political issues and talking about it openly was considered taboo. The people that did were considered crackpots. Then the 2012 election happened and the Mayan profecy became reality. Now everyone has a political science degree apparently.
I feel sorry for kids that have to grow up constantly hearing political arguments. In olden times we would get a big political issue every once in awhile. Whitewater and the Clinton impeachment trial for example. Still, nobody really took that stuff seriously, and it was rarely the topic of conversation except for a passing joke here or there.
It was a simpler time, that's for sure.
Yep which is why I'm happy I don't have to deal with political extremist communities like The_Donald that attracts people who troll with bigoted awful bullshit in every thread possible no matter the community.
This time didn't exist you were just ignorant to it or believe your own set political beliefs are default and therefore not politics just stuff.
In the US just going by big boomer era strokes: the red scare was in the 40sCivil rights era was the red 60s, white flight red lining and urban decay happened throughout the 70s in the US, Reagan era neo con movement happened in the 80s along side the rise of evangelical movement, and I feel like the bush Clinton bush era are recent enough that they shouldn't need introduction.
Politics didn't dominate everyday discourse like it does today. We had tv news, newspapers, Radio and magazines. Yeah, we knew that Bush sr threw up on the Japanese PM. But unless you subscribed to very specific periodicals you were only going to see major events and these were icky talked about because it was something interesting that happened, not because people had very strong opinions that they wanted to debate. I've seen people say that we lack a shared national experience like we used to have. We used to all consume the same media. So there wasn't much debate. Now the facts are constantly being debated because people read wildly different sources that present the news in a conflicting manner.
Im in my mid 30s, my guy and have older family members and friends. You arent talking to some wide eye'd teenager. There's a level of civility thats unable to be had because the right has slowly but surely marched towards insanity, but politics were always a hot button issue in the US. Talk radio, right wing talk radio posing as christian radio, politically leaning daily newspapers, tabloids, talkshows, the 24 hour news cycle and more.
And thats not even getting to discourse around people who were on the outs during an era. Like the general attitudes and casual hate speech thrown around gays in the 90s and 00s was kind of appauling. Still isnt great but eddie murphy's hit comedy bitch which was just him being mad at a hypothetical gay man and calling him an F was huge in the 80s. But yeah golden age when nobody cared about politics.
Where do you live at, a battleground state? I don't, so we never got all the targeted advertising and whatnot here. I imagine someone in Ohio or Florida would have a much different experience due to political advertising. However, you probably weren't experiencing it online in Yahoo pool or Diablo II. The 24 hour news cycle didn't exist until the mid to late nineties, and only took off after September 11 2001. If you were consuming and discussing political content on a daily basis, then you were an outlier.
Eh some people don't realize the impact politics have, not sure it's privilege
this may be a product of how overused the word can sometimes be in common parlance, but--at least with respect to the people being described--that is almost by definition a privilege. if you have the ability to not realize the impact of politics there is a fairly good chance you are someone whose livelihood does not depend on the right policies continuing to exist, and you can take for granted not being persecuted just for existing.
If guilding existed here, I'd guild this comment.
Sorry, you're misunderstanding my point. Some people don't see the cause and effect relationship between politics and their well being. It's not that theyre not being impacted.
Nah they understood it perfectly. The response still works.
Eh It's typically privilege.
If all you have is hammer, everything looks like a nail.
I agree that everything is political, and that some people have the unfair advantage of being able to ignore things that affect others; but what I think this person is saying is that it seems to just be one person, rather than it hosting an actual mirror community for what was r/The_Donald.
And I get what he's saying when he says:
(And I don't feel like I should need to say that I'm the "kind of person" harmfully affected by people like Trump, but I will say so out of hope that you'll hear what I'm saying and not dismiss me as another privileged person who doesn't care.
For as many marginalised people I've met who would feel discomfort around remaining federated, I've known just as many that get stressed out and exhausted by conflict over what to them seems like a 'minor thing', because of the vitriol, spite, etc. that comes with it. Especially when, as the other person above alluded to, some people seem to get involved in these things specifically for the sake of conflict, rather than any meaningful political stance.)
Ultimately I don't think there's a useful way to evaluate this until the admins respond (though I don't know how long it has been, I wouldn't be surprised if they were overwhelmed with the sudden peak of interest in lemmy and kbin). But given the community over there's clear, negative reaction to this person, I don't want to rush to designate them a toxic community.
edit: that instance's global rules say:
This was my problem when I tried mastodon. There was always some drama between instances over some minor thing that people decided was the most important thing in the world
Yeah, that sounds about right. Honestly, the thing that I find hardest about the internet -- and which makes me want to log off indefinitely -- is the constant wave of people assuming the absolute worst about everyone, and a kind of ignorance that people can come from different formative experiences without being an enemy.
Not really sure how we solve that one (though I did choose to sign up here because, ostensibly, it's a place where jumping the gun on judging people -- something that is often performative anyway -- is discouraged.)