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'No Possibility' of Gaza Cease-Fire, Biden Says as 500+ Former Staffers Demand One
(www.commondreams.org)
this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2023
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Remember this blood is on the hands of anyone who voted for him and would vote for him again.
Genocide is Biden's legacy, hope it was worth saving "democracy".
That you apparently have the privilege to not be affected by the consequences of a Republican government doesn't invalidate the choices of those who would be, and voted accordingly.
We are all complicit in the same way we are all complicit for the war crimes committed by America in the Middle East: most of us did not have a choice in the matter whatsoever. All we can do is demand them to stop.
I'm not going to judge someone whose choices are "genocide" and "genocide even more, and even more local genocide" and picks the former.
On the contrary, you are displaying the tremendous privilege of living in the imperial core by being able to choose between "'genocide' and 'genocide even more, and even more local genocide'" and justify literally voluntarily voting to choose genocide in order to make yourself feel more comfortable within the imperial core.
True fascism taking power in the US means that I and the people around me will be murdered. But I don't feel the ethical apathy to be able to coldly prefer international genocide of others to keep myself safe at home all the while pretending like I saved the freedom for the entire world as children and whole families are being murdered. Biden is not the progressive savior all of you claimed he was, now at least you admit you chose "genocide"—which I do, and history will, judge harshly.
If you choose to vote for him again after this, you will consciously approve of genocide and be all the more guilty.
ok
Sorry to disappoint you, but if the president was Trump or any other Republican your government would have been even firmer behind Israel, so it is a choice between a bad and a worse president.
Hell we would probably have deployed troops to Gaza and also to stand by in case of actions from Iran, Egypt, Lebanon, or Syria.
Whataboutism.
Not voting for him again directly enables a guy that would do so much worse. Your stance lacks any understanding of the limits to our voting system.
How could it be worse than genocide for Palestinians?
Israel could genocide all 2.2 million people living in the Gaza Strip, all 3 million people living in the West Bank, the 1.6 million Palestinian people who live in Israel, the 5.5 million people living in Lebanon and get into a massive conflict in the Middle East where they end up using nuclear weapons.
Oh, and Trump could deport the 225 thousand Palestinian people living in the United States so Israel can genocide them too. Or just do it here in America. The Republicans will almost certainly streamline the death penalty and turn America's mass incarceration system into death camps.
More whataboutism. Trump isn't the President overseeing and providing cover for the genocide right now and Biden hasn't helped in undoing neither the inhumane incarceration system nor the camps ('migrant detention centers') already underway in the US.
But I asked you what could be worse than genocide, and you responded by saying genocide. So, nothing can be worse than genocide? Great, then we are well on our way.
Even if it isn't completed now, Biden has been more than helpful to the far Right colonizers in Israel by enabling this and setting precedent for whenever they wish to continue. Democrat or Republican, it doesn't matter, Israel has validity now to continue genocide. And Democrat or Republican, it doesn't matter, voters like you have spoken—support is unconditional, let genocide continue.
Where do you draw your line? How many murdered Palestinian families do you find acceptable?
I have already refuted this argument so I'm just going to copy and paste my earlier response.
The collective punishment we are seeing now is the start of genocide. It is not the full genocide. The difference is millions of people. There is no credibility to an argument that refuses to acknowledge this difference.
No Trump would be worse. He was the one who moved our embassy to Israel. He is the one who is going to destabilize the situation further. Half of the Democratic party wants a ceasefire. Republicans want unconditional support for Israel. Have you ever watched or read fox news? The difference between the parties becomes quite clear, very quickly.
You can't guilt someone into enabling fascists. It doesn't work. Think about all the people the Republicans are going to get killed. It's not equivalent.
Who raised the issue of Trump or the Republican Party when I discussed Biden?
Do you still feel it is a democracy worth defending by approving genocide when the choice is a fascist-enabler and a fascist?
Whataboutism. It's obnoxious when it isn't being used against your opponents, right?
I haven't supported any fascists. The Democratic Party, on the other hand, was the one who guilted you into enabling fascists. Netanyahu has gone mask-off fascist and the Democratic Party guilted you and others into voting for Biden who has been enabling Netanyahu for decades, and continues to do so now. How many people have to be murdered for you to stop supporting Biden? Do you feel any guilt or shame for voting to empower Biden who shipped weapons and sent money to Israel to bomb children and their families?
Multiple people did. It's not whataboutism if the issues are linked. Which they are.
This statement is not based in reality. Trump is a fascist and fascist enabler. Biden is not.
It's not a whataboutism if the issues are linked. Which they are.
It's a two party system. Republicans win with low voter turn out. By not voting for Biden you are helping Trump. It's just math. You can't guilt people into supporting a fascist like Trump.
You're delusional if you are not even willing to admit to yourself you voted for a fascist enabler because you wanted to feel safer.
That's a functional democracy worth defending at the cost of supporting genocide to you?
I mean, I do feel safer. You should too. I voted for Biden to stop the fascist take over. I didn't fully realize how much of a danger it was until Jan 6th. But it's become crystal clear to me since.
A democracy that is against genocide is better than a fascist dictatorship that actively pursues genocide at home and abroad. How is that even a question?
I don't feel safer because I've seen the slide towards fascism way before Trump and I know it will continue towards fascism because this slide includes the support and enabling of Democrats. There is no getting off this train by just electing Biden or the next assless Democrat who will just watch as fascists consolidate power.
It's really telling to me you still consider this a democracy that is against genocide. The President is literally funding and arming a genocide that is happening right now. And when the choice is between a President who supports genocide or a President who supports worse genocide, how is that not already a dictatorship? How is that a functioning democracy? That is why it is even a question.
Our decent into fascism started with Regan. Although it can be argued Republicans were trying even earlier with Nixon, they just screwed it up.
Democrats are controlled by neoliberals. But they are the most progress option we have and their party includes most of the progressive politicians that we have. Older politicians are finally aging out. Given enough time Democrats could be become a true progressive party and an effective deterrent against fascism. In the mean time, they are the only alternative.
I want the Democratic party to be more progressive, but I know voting for them is only way to stop a fascist takeover from happening.
Biden supports Israel's right to defend itself, not genocide. Netanyahu and his government chose to commit war crimes, not Biden. Biden has of course gotten this issue wrong. He should be demanding a ceasefire, among other things. Hopefully given enough pressure Biden will change his stance.
What's been weird about this argument is the commitment to equivocating two individuals who could not be more different. Biden is a neoliberal. Trump is a fascist. Everyone can spot the difference. No one can be fooled by such a thinly veiled deception unless they choose to be. Why are you letting yourself be fooled? The people who want our country to descend into fascism don't have our best interests at heart. Why go so willingly to our deaths at the hands of the Republicans? The Palestinians won't be better off with America as a fascist dictatorship. The only way to help the Palestinians, ourselves, or anyone else is with a democracy. Do you just want guilt trip me or do you think it will somehow get better if we lose our democracy?
Biden did not cause the problems in Gaza, what are you on about? He's not the one in charge of Israel's actions. I am not a fan of him or a fan of sending aid to them, but this is just overdramatic.
On top of that, if people didn't vote for Biden then we would have Trump doing the same plus a bunch of other worse shit on top of that. We have two choices everytime. All people can do is vote for the lesser of two evils and that's what they did. If you wanna throw away your vote and help the objectively worse party win a presidential election again, that's on you, but most sensible people understand the choice we are forced to make thanks to our shitty system.
No, he's just the one supporting funding and arming Israel no matter what they do for decades and voting for him continued to enable Israel which inevitably led to this moment we're at now.
Whataboutism.
The choice to vote for Biden is linked to the choice to vote against Trump. They can not be separated from one another. To do so is to be disingenuous. We live in a democracy with a two party system. The Republican party is disproportionally represented by our electoral system and win with low voter turn out.
Since we can not separate the choice of voting for Biden and rejecting Trump, it is justified to bring up what Trump and the Republicans would do. If we want any chance of the US demanding a ceasefire then we need to reject the Republican party who will blindly support Israeli no mater what.
You got what you voted for then. A whopping 4-hour daily ceasefire.
Thanks for voting!
I also avoided another disastrous four years under Trump. I can live with the choice to vote for Biden because everyone in the world will be worse off under Trump. So, you're welcome.
Yeah, it could be worse for those maimed Palestinian kids. They could be dead, like those other Palestinian kids. Great trade.
Trump would have enabled and emboldened Israel's government to kill more Palestinians. That would have been a worse outcome. There is no such thing as rock bottom. It can always get worse.
So how many murdered Palestinians are an acceptable amount for you?
Certainly not 11 thousand. Why are more murdered Palestinians acceptable to you? Do you seriously think you're going to guilt trip people into getting more people killed?
Rather, it was supporters of Biden trying to guilt trip everyone into voting for him and now we see the consequence of it. You either voted or are defending those who voted for genocide, I haven't done either. Next time I hope no one supporting Biden will feel morally superior to those who do not feel they can willingly support this kind of policy which only enables the freefall toward fascism both domestically and abroad.
If people like you feel comfortable with your choice in voluntarily voting for genocide-lite and will vote for it again, then I am just simply reminding you of the blood on your privileged hands. Deep down you know it is true.
The only one who feels morally superior here is you. I implore you to reconsider. By not voting for Biden you are enabling a Republcian lead christofascist take over of the United States. Once the US becomes a fascist dictatorship it will support the fascist takeovers that are happening in Israel and India. Millions of muslims will die all over the world as a result. It's not about being morally superior, it's about avoiding firing squads killing all of us. Please get out of whatever echo chamber you're stuck in. It's going to get us all killed. edit: typo
Ah, yes, it's only my imagination and projection that Democrats were drunk with feelings of moral superiority in the last two elections.
What has Biden done to prevent fascism spreading domestically and abroad? How has Biden stopped the death squads of the IDF killing Muslims right now? When has Biden protected Americans from the Christofascist Supreme Court? How is it worth voting to support genocide to protect a so-called 'democracy' when the choice, according to you, is a fascist-enabler and a fascist? When is it worth families being murdered to make you feel safe?
Apologies but you are the one in the echo chamber. Our path is inevitable.
Yes.
You are in echo chamber. We have a chance to avoid disaster but only if we vote the Republican fascists out.
Biden kept us in NATO and is supporting Ukraine. Biden appointed a progress supreme court judge, which is all he can do until more supreme court judges die of old age. Biden has gotten the current events in the Israel-Palestine conflict wrong, but that does not make him a fascist enabler or a fascist. Biden wanted Israel to defend itself from Hamas and minimize civilian casualties. He didn't tell Israel to commit war crimes.
Trump is a fascist and a fascist enabler. More families will be murdered under him. I feel safer knowing he isn't in the White House, instructing Israel to commit war crimes. The difference is millions of lives.
I'm not even going to address your either blatant lie or severe historical amnesia about Democratic evangelism, despite the fact you are still proving my point by arguing that choosing Biden to Trump was the morally superior choice and that not voting for Biden ipso facto makes you a Trump supporter (which is morally inferior).
Is this the same Ukraine where he sends arms and money without demanding that said arms and money do not go towards Nazi regiments such as Azov? Supporting one fascist group which trains US-born fascists against another fascist group has prevented fascism from spreading?
Are you sure that's all he could do? So he's powerless to protect us from Christofascists in power? We just have to wait it out?
Is Biden's "unwavering support" for Israel's Right-wing and genocidal fascist Netanyahu not fascist-enabling? What then is the difference between being "wrong" by funding and arming Israel and continuing to defend them politically, and being a "fascist enabler"?
Yeah, the difference is you feel safer.
Morality sucks. It often leads people to the wrong conclusions. It's not about moral superiority. It's about stopping fascism and millions of deaths.
The Azov Brigade has been denazified. The founders of the militia are now in their own political party which thankfully has won zero seats last I checked. Russian propaganda isn't credible information.
I have read the constitution. Appointing Supreme Court justices is in fact all he can do in regards to the Supreme Court. The Republicans waited 50 years to take our freedoms away. Now we may very well have to spend 50 years voting to get them back. This is why elections matter.
Here is a transcript. You'll want article two, section two, paragraph two.
Biden doesn't support the fascist right wing of Israel. It's hard for any world leader to single out the political parties of another country. World leaders have little recourse but to interface with other world leaders. We are reaching a point where we are going to have to start denouncing countries for putting fascists in power. This of course goes against decades of foreign policy of sticking with your allies no matter what. But we are going to have to because fascist dictatorships are incentivized to betray democracies.
Right. Because I am. And so is everyone else.
I'll agree with you there, morality does suck. But you haven't stopped fascism by voting for Biden, you've supported it.
Sure.
Great, I've read it as well. So then how does Biden protect us from Christofascism when they literally already govern us for irrevocable life terms? How has fascism been prevented by voting for Biden? How are we not already in fascism which Biden and other Democrats have done nothing to prevent regardless of whether one voted for them or not? And you're delusional if you think fascists will respect these weak ass institutions, that did nothing to stop them in the first place, once they are magically defeated using the same institutions which they will either control or destroy. I agree that fascism taking over the US is an existential threat to the world, and Biden did nothing about it but tell us to wait longer and vote again. Your vote didn't stop fascism.
He's been a friend and suporter of Netanyahu for over 40 years, almost half a century; he has continued funding, arming, and militarily as well as politically defending Israel while they commit genocide, but somehow none of that doesn't make him a fascist supporter yet? Oh, but I didn't know he was forced to be friendly with fascists. He has little recourse but to deal with fascist genociders, what a shame. Yet he has full power to not recognize or deal with states like Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, and so on. Weird how that works. It's almost as if he wants to be on friendly terms with the far Right in Israel for some reason, but I guess I just don't understand the high levels of geopolitics.
Yeah, those Palestinian children are much safer in the ground surrounded by their families. You have supported fascism, not everyone is safer because of it. Fascists are safer, though, there's that at least.
By electing Biden we stopped the fascist takeover in America by another four years. By not voting for Biden, you helped Trump, a fascist.
Yep. The truth is Russia lies.
The fascists need to control all three branches of government to complete their take over. We are currently denying them the executive branch. By controlling the Senate as well, we retain the means to appoint judges at all levels of the federal government, not just the Supreme Court. Undoing the damage done by Trump, getting a liberal majority on the Supreme Court and fixing the flaws in our democracy that enabled the fascists in the first place could easily take decades. And during that time we are always going to be one election away from the fascists taking over all three branches of the federal government. We're going to be voting fascists out of office and preventing fascists from taking office for a while. I believe as long as people continue to tell each other about the danger these fascists present to us all then we will continue to beat them in elections.
Right, the US has been supporting Israel for over 70 years. By your logic, everyone in America is a fascist. Rather than acknowledging the complexity of the Israel-Palestine conflict, you want it to be simple. Israel is bad so America is bad. Biden is American therefore he is bad. The fact that Jews were the victims of the holocaust and Biden wants to foster a country where they can live in peace is simply not a possible motivation as far as you're concerned. He must want to enable the far right extremists to commit genocide. I could go into detail about I how I think the state of Israel centered in the 'Holy Land' was a terrible mechanism to achieve lasting peace for anyone. Problem is we inherited a globe carved up by indifferent Europeans who had no idea what they were doing when they drew the maps. We can try to fix these problems or we can enjoy a position of moral superiority that comes with taking sides. I'm choosing the former.
More Palestinian children would be dead if the fascists were in power under Trump. You ignoring that isn't making me look like a fascist.
edit: typos
All right, but this doesn't make you any different from Trump supporters that Democrats love to accuse of (mostly correctly) being fascists.
The problem with you feeling like this critique makes you defensive and want to just go for the easy option is that there is always another option that you could do but it seems like it's impossible for it to dawn upon you people. It's either genocide or worse genocide. No other choice. But it's also totally a functioning democracy worth defending, unlike those other bloodthirsty authoritarian regimes.
If you can't figure out another option or don't support it or think it's impossible because it's difficult so might as well not do it, then continue doing as you are but, yes, be aware there is blood on your hands and you are acting as a fascist supporter at best.