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'No Possibility' of Gaza Cease-Fire, Biden Says as 500+ Former Staffers Demand One
(www.commondreams.org)
this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2023
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Israel could genocide all 2.2 million people living in the Gaza Strip, all 3 million people living in the West Bank, the 1.6 million Palestinian people who live in Israel, the 5.5 million people living in Lebanon and get into a massive conflict in the Middle East where they end up using nuclear weapons.
Oh, and Trump could deport the 225 thousand Palestinian people living in the United States so Israel can genocide them too. Or just do it here in America. The Republicans will almost certainly streamline the death penalty and turn America's mass incarceration system into death camps.
More whataboutism. Trump isn't the President overseeing and providing cover for the genocide right now and Biden hasn't helped in undoing neither the inhumane incarceration system nor the camps ('migrant detention centers') already underway in the US.
But I asked you what could be worse than genocide, and you responded by saying genocide. So, nothing can be worse than genocide? Great, then we are well on our way.
Even if it isn't completed now, Biden has been more than helpful to the far Right colonizers in Israel by enabling this and setting precedent for whenever they wish to continue. Democrat or Republican, it doesn't matter, Israel has validity now to continue genocide. And Democrat or Republican, it doesn't matter, voters like you have spoken—support is unconditional, let genocide continue.
Where do you draw your line? How many murdered Palestinian families do you find acceptable?
I have already refuted this argument so I'm just going to copy and paste my earlier response.
The collective punishment we are seeing now is the start of genocide. It is not the full genocide. The difference is millions of people. There is no credibility to an argument that refuses to acknowledge this difference.
No Trump would be worse. He was the one who moved our embassy to Israel. He is the one who is going to destabilize the situation further. Half of the Democratic party wants a ceasefire. Republicans want unconditional support for Israel. Have you ever watched or read fox news? The difference between the parties becomes quite clear, very quickly.
You can't guilt someone into enabling fascists. It doesn't work. Think about all the people the Republicans are going to get killed. It's not equivalent.
Who raised the issue of Trump or the Republican Party when I discussed Biden?
Do you still feel it is a democracy worth defending by approving genocide when the choice is a fascist-enabler and a fascist?
Whataboutism. It's obnoxious when it isn't being used against your opponents, right?
I haven't supported any fascists. The Democratic Party, on the other hand, was the one who guilted you into enabling fascists. Netanyahu has gone mask-off fascist and the Democratic Party guilted you and others into voting for Biden who has been enabling Netanyahu for decades, and continues to do so now. How many people have to be murdered for you to stop supporting Biden? Do you feel any guilt or shame for voting to empower Biden who shipped weapons and sent money to Israel to bomb children and their families?
Multiple people did. It's not whataboutism if the issues are linked. Which they are.
This statement is not based in reality. Trump is a fascist and fascist enabler. Biden is not.
It's not a whataboutism if the issues are linked. Which they are.
It's a two party system. Republicans win with low voter turn out. By not voting for Biden you are helping Trump. It's just math. You can't guilt people into supporting a fascist like Trump.
You're delusional if you are not even willing to admit to yourself you voted for a fascist enabler because you wanted to feel safer.
That's a functional democracy worth defending at the cost of supporting genocide to you?
I mean, I do feel safer. You should too. I voted for Biden to stop the fascist take over. I didn't fully realize how much of a danger it was until Jan 6th. But it's become crystal clear to me since.
A democracy that is against genocide is better than a fascist dictatorship that actively pursues genocide at home and abroad. How is that even a question?
I don't feel safer because I've seen the slide towards fascism way before Trump and I know it will continue towards fascism because this slide includes the support and enabling of Democrats. There is no getting off this train by just electing Biden or the next assless Democrat who will just watch as fascists consolidate power.
It's really telling to me you still consider this a democracy that is against genocide. The President is literally funding and arming a genocide that is happening right now. And when the choice is between a President who supports genocide or a President who supports worse genocide, how is that not already a dictatorship? How is that a functioning democracy? That is why it is even a question.
Our decent into fascism started with Regan. Although it can be argued Republicans were trying even earlier with Nixon, they just screwed it up.
Democrats are controlled by neoliberals. But they are the most progress option we have and their party includes most of the progressive politicians that we have. Older politicians are finally aging out. Given enough time Democrats could be become a true progressive party and an effective deterrent against fascism. In the mean time, they are the only alternative.
I want the Democratic party to be more progressive, but I know voting for them is only way to stop a fascist takeover from happening.
Biden supports Israel's right to defend itself, not genocide. Netanyahu and his government chose to commit war crimes, not Biden. Biden has of course gotten this issue wrong. He should be demanding a ceasefire, among other things. Hopefully given enough pressure Biden will change his stance.
What's been weird about this argument is the commitment to equivocating two individuals who could not be more different. Biden is a neoliberal. Trump is a fascist. Everyone can spot the difference. No one can be fooled by such a thinly veiled deception unless they choose to be. Why are you letting yourself be fooled? The people who want our country to descend into fascism don't have our best interests at heart. Why go so willingly to our deaths at the hands of the Republicans? The Palestinians won't be better off with America as a fascist dictatorship. The only way to help the Palestinians, ourselves, or anyone else is with a democracy. Do you just want guilt trip me or do you think it will somehow get better if we lose our democracy?